Digest Number 1073

[Guest guest]

Marco

 

I for one would love (really appreciate in more scientific terms?) to hear

from N. Wiseman

I also think it would be a good idea if possible for Wiseman to be at least

d directly to the list, since just like the recent addition of Rey

Tiquia it would be potentially a great source for discourse to continioue...

 

I'll let him know.

 

Excuse the question but Complexity is that a outgrowth of so call system

theories that I think Judith Faraquith mentions in Knowing practice (in the

passing) and Volkers recent publish book does it deal with Complexity?

 

I still haven't had a chance to see Volker's

book and have likewise not read the other

title you mention. So I don't know.

 

I for one would be interested in a historical summery and or update on

where/how does cybernetics (biology-70's), system theories (80´s), information

theories (90's) and Complexity (theories?) relate to one another and to

Chinese medicine.

 

General systems theory was developed as

part of an initiative undertaken by

the US government after WWI to develop

more effective command and control

facilities for military operations.

 

There's a book called Cybernetics by

Norbert Weiner that is more of less

the bible of the subject. And there

is an abridged version of this book

called The Human Use of Human Beings.

 

Chaos theory grew out of weather

mapping and trend extrapolation

techniques to predict weather

patterns in the 1960s, and with

the advent of micro-processors

and Moore's law, mathematicians

in subsequent decades were able

to develop and model equations

that had previously been simply

too laborious to take serious.

 

And thus there appeared a new

science to study complex adaptive

systems, which formed one of the

bases on which the Santa Fe Institute

was formed in 1984 to develop a

new science: complexity.

 

Things have grown apace since then,

as I understand it...which is

rather superficially. But I spent

a few days at SFI a couple of years

ago and started a number of conversations

with folks there that have continued

ever since.

 

I know that a couple of months ago

there was a meeting here in China,

in Qing Dao I beleive, that focused

on questions related to Complexity

and . I gave a talk

on this subject last December to

the Systems Science Forum at Beijing

Normal University, and I know there

is a growing group of researchers

both in China and elsewhere who are

interested in the possibilites evoked

by the comparison of data and perspectives

from these two disciplines of knowledge.

 

I believe that the current issue of

CAOM, i.e., Vol. 3 #2, has just been

published. I've been traveling for

several months so haven't been at

any one place long enough to receive

snail mail. So I don't actually have

a copy to hand. But it is supposed

to contain a series of articles that

attempt to introduce this topic.

 

 

 

It is very possible that my summery is poor understanding and hence the

request.

 

My summary is in no way complete.

I welcome input from anybody who

cares to comment.

 

I think that someone named Stephen Birch and R. Hammerslang(?) are deeply

involved with SAR society for acupuncture research. Ken you most likely know

of them since they are also I think involved or regular contributors to the

Journal you are editor of.

 

I know both someones quite well. I've

talked with Steve Birch about the subject

at some length, but I'll leave it to him

to address it further whenever he might

have the chance. Richard Hammerschlag has

been swamped with his duties as director

of research at the Oregon College of

Oriental Medicine, and I really haven't

been able to delve into all of this

with him yet.

 

I have not got (yet) Understanding Acupuncture by Birch and Felt but my

impression is that they deal with above topic.

 

I think it is worth mentioning in case someone related to SAR reads this:

 

SAR website must surly take the price for the most boring web site in the

western hemisphere specially considering such a vital topic - any chance of

infusing it with Qi?

 

Too bad Andy Warhol is no longer

with us. He liked boring things.

I'll pass this comment along to

Richard.

 

 

hmm, can I say this? (it is always worth asking)

 

In Guatemala quite frankly the combination of promoting Chinese medicine at a

more accessible level has render it difficult to keep up with books and

journals since the pay here is proptionatly different. Is any one awer of

grants that could allow for a development of a " libaery " or materials for a

" school " of or ideally a clinic with materials. It probably

is to early to mention this but in the long run I am aiming for a project

which is self sustaining and developing but have allot to learn about such

matters. (would like to say to snakeoil works will write an " update " )

 

Always worth asking. I don't know of

any grants, but I'd suggest you approach

publishers directly. Again, I urge you

to contact Harriet and Efrem.

 

Thanks for asking it went okay but brings comments on subsequent matters,

Chinese Language.

 

With regard to transmission of knowledge there is not merely what the

transmitter may or may not know but how " ready " those that are on the other

end are i.e. those that receive the information.

 

I think this is an extremely important

point and one that I raise constantly with

colleagues here in China and elsewhere.

I think of the process as I think of

clinical interventions, i.e., as conversations

in which attention must be focused alternately

on both ends in order to achieve successful

outcomes.

 

I have a small " class " where I try to convey " Chinese medicine " (absurd as it

may sound), either way neither of the participants can understand when I

emphasise about the importance of learning medical Chinese (which by the way

is taking note of Jim Ramholz suggested methodology, cheers). However I try to

tell them that the aim of the " teacher " facilitator (probably a more pertinent

term for what and where we in Guatemala are currently at) is for the students

to learn more then the " teacher " and hence a way to truly develop

idiosyncratic particularise is to wale and re-wale through the medical

heritage that is both now and what was then.

 

Nice. There's an old Chinese saying:

May be blue of the dye be deeper

than that of the indigo plant, which

means more or less the same thing.

 

This I think is better conveyed by Steven Clavey:

 

" ... for whom the word 'classic' -jing- is the image of the lengthy warph

threads on a loom, those lines which carry the essential experience of culture

on and through weft after weft of succeeding generations. In the practical

area of Chinese medicine, the importance of this consistency cannot be

over-emphasized...Thus a practitioner needing a new perspective on a difficult

case has a tremendous breath of resource material from which to draw: perhaps

a modern journal, perhaps the essay of a physician first written fifteen

hundred years ago " Page v-vi Fluid Physiology and pathology in Traditional

Chinese medicine.

 

To put it simply: information transmission

is complex.

 

 

[...]but maybe are mediating a living system.

 

Have you ever read Bucky Fuller's

Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth

or Critical Path?

 

Have the obligation to return the " favour " Chinese medicine does for us in

terms of being able to greater and lesser extent treat patients and the

personal fulfilment in " quenching " the thirst for knowledge that indeed may be

a trait of a TCM practitioner.

 

Also there is difference between passive receiver and active receiver.

 

Thus for the above scenarios it once more becomes self evident that the

question is not either or but how to learn medical Chinese which albeit may be

to a greater and lesser degrees depending on numerous factors beyond the scope

of this letter letter.

 

Your students are fortunate to have

a teacher with such concerns. Please

keep us posted on your and their

progress.

 

Ken