Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

Digest Number 1075

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

Guest guest

Barbara and All

>

> Message: 16

> Fri, 2 Aug 2002 05:32:47 EDT

> BKirschb

> Re: Digest Number 1071

 

 

> Hi ken, Ihope my answers will be of help to

> you:

 

Yes they are. Thanks for providing them,

as I think they help to focus and clarify

the discussion. I want to add a few additional

comments.

 

When I talk about the necessity of language

study in the context of the study and practice

of traditional Chinese medicine, I mainly

have the language of the classics in mind,

i.e., Classical Chinese. For those on the list

who may not be aware of them, there are

substantial differences between the ancient

language in which the medical classics are all

written, and the modern language. Grammar and

syntax differ substantially. Characters have

different meanings now than they had in

centuries gone by. In fact one of the complex

difficulties with reading Classical Chinese

is that the meanings of characters have

changed constantly throughout the centuries.

So when reading a text, it's always important

to understand clearly when it was written.

 

There's been quite a bit of discussion in

the past few days about language, and though

I haven't been able to reply to the flow

of it, I have read it day by day and will

reply in general terms.

raised a point about the " ethereal " nature

of Chinese characters, and the discussion

shifted accordingly. I'm not at all sure what had in mind with the word " ethereal " , but

I don't believe that I, for one, have ever

suggested that there is anything ethereal about

Chinese characters that one has to inhale in

order to understand Chinese medicine.

 

What I have suggested is that the patterns of

thinking, logic, strategy, and so forth that

underlie the medical theories are important

to understand for those who want to understand

the medicine and its uses. These patterns of

thought are of course intimately related to

the patterns of the language in which those

thoughts were formulated and expressed.

 

An argument is often raised about the need

to change and adapt the old theories to

contemporary needs. " We're not Chinese. We

don't live in ancient times. We have to

be able to deal with the world of today. "

 

Chinese of later periods were of course still

Chinese, but they experienced quite similar

circumstances with respect to needing to

adapt the ancient transmissions to each

successive " contemporary " time period. Of

course doctors and patients in Japan, Korea,

Vietnam, and many other Asian countries all

had to make similar adaptations and changes.

 

Of course there is a mandate to embrace such

changes contained in the most fundamental

theories of Chinese medicine. So one cannot

argue against this point. But until the current

efforts at reception of Chinese medicine in

the West dating back several decades now, few

if any have ever attempted to understand the

medicine and adapt it to their contemporary

needs without the benefit of understanding

the texts that contain the gist of the subject.

 

My point is that to understand these texts,

that is, to understand the gist of the subject

an individual simply has to be able to take

a look at them for him or her self. Those who

read only translations can be compared to

a doctor who operates entirely on the basis

of what someone else says the patient's pulse

feels like or how the tongue appears.

 

Does everyone have to become a Confucian

scholar?

 

Naturally there is no such prerequisite to the

study of medicine. But famous Chinese doctors

like Sun Si Miao have spelled out the prerequisites

to the study of medicine. We quoted those in

the foreword to Who Can Ride the Dragon? because

we felt it was important for students in the

West to see the standards set by their predecsssors.

 

At this juncture, Todd usually asks, " So how

much is enough? " And Alon Says, " Where's the

beef? " It's a discussion that goes round and

round on this list. Every time the point comes

up Z'ev and I can be expected to repeat our

parts in the round. " All one has to do is

start. "

 

What caught my attention in your post,

it dawns on me now, is that someone

reading it who was not at all familiar

with the matter, might reasonably conclude

that there was no point to learning the

language of the medical classics as a

way to grasp the gist of the subject.

 

I suspect that that is not, precisely,

your intention. But I could certainly

be wrong.

 

And in any case, whenever that note is

struck I feel compelled so say my

bit again.

 

And again, it has nothing to do with

anything ethereal or effervescent. It

has to do with the nuts and bolts of

the matter. We're dealing with ideas.

There is an intimate relationship between

language and ideas. To ignore it is

risky.

 

>

> Did you learn to read the classical

> language?

> the modern language

>

>

> Were there any particular texts you

> used that you would recommend?

> I used Paul Unschuld, chinesisch lesen und

> schreiben lernen. I don`t know if

> this is available in english.

 

If I'm not mistaken they can be

attained from

 

www.paradigm-pubs.com

 

I think Marco asked for that url

recently to find the archives there,

which are filled with some pretty

fascinating stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Marco,

 

>

> Message: 3

> Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:35:26 -0500

> " Marco "

> " acupressure "

>

> Dear List(s) thanks for the responses...

>

>

> Really thanks for the info, however I am still

> not that clear wither

> traditionally-historically-practically

> " acupressure " was/is seen as a individual

> therapy as promoted on various English language

> web site or?. For what it is worth I will try

> to convey that " acupressure " is part of other

> treatment approaches, where the both patient

> and practitioner need to be in a more

> aware-intentional state.

 

What do you know? We find ourselves

talking about language and the meaning of

words again. I'll take just a minute or

two to make some comments about " accupressure "

and related terms.

 

If you talk to Ron Teaguarden, he'll tell

you that he invented the term " accupressure "

back in the late 60's or early 70's. He

was certainly one of the early popularizers

of the term and the whole discipline of

Chinese massage therapy. I remember the

first time I heard the term, which was in

1971 at the California Institute of the Arts.

 

Whether or not Ron invented the term is

moot. It stuck, and ever since people have

generally referred to a variety of techniques

of massage that stem from Chinese and other

East Asian sources as " accupressure " . I think

the term " shiatsu " is similarly if less

broadly applied.

 

More recently, I hear the Chinese term " tuina " .

 

In Chinese there are two words that commonly

mean " massage " . One is " tuina " and the other

is " anmo " . Despite misconceptions in the West,

neither suggests a specific set of techniques.

Practitioners who describe their work with

either or both know and use a variety of

techniques and methods.

 

 

[...]

>

> For example is it " true " that some Chinese

> hospitals and clinics have specialised Tui Nai

> departments (where presumably some form of " zhi

> zhen (digital acupuncture which means the

> fingers taking the place of the metallic

> acupuncture needle); zhi ya liao fa (digital

> pressure therapy); zhi ya fa (digital pressure

> method ) "

 

There are, indeed, clinics in Chinese hospitals

as well as free-standing clinics that offer

primarily or uniquely massage therapy. These

range from curbside chairs to barbershop to

" massage parlors " to small medical clinics to

quite elaborately outfitted hospitals.

 

What is done and how it is done is different

in virtually each and every one.

 

> And

>

> " yi zhi chan ( " one thumb meditation " was her

> translation)... "

>

> Which gives a hint at a the larger process

> involved in the clinical-therapeuticall

> encounter-process and by extension involved in

> life at large...

 

When I teach the subject I stress the

importance of these larger processes,

life at large as you call it. After

all, we only see patients for a tiny

fraction of their life at large. So

the interaction should include as

much education as possible that the

individual can use in his or her life

at large.

 

 

>

> Marco Bergh (I really hope I am not abusing the

> purpose of the lists)

 

No doubt you are. But you are not

alone.

>

>

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Ken:

 

There are, indeed, clinics in Chinese hospitalsas well as free-standing clinics that offerprimarily or uniquely massage therapy. Theserange from curbside chairs to barbershop to"massage parlors" to small medical clinics toquite elaborately outfitted hospitals. What is done and how it is done is differentin virtually each and every one.Marco:

 

I know it to broad of a question to answer specific, but here goes anyways. also, since I am looking for information that can act as an agent in terms of animating promoting and more in-depth attitude and or study of both by government institutes and hospitals and Universities and individuals at large I ask the following:

 

Could you just break down and summarise a bit about the difference within each setting?

 

Marco (always very great full for comments-responses, and apologies for a delay in answering some very helpful letters...from members of the list...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...