Secrets of Chinese Medicine-in the 'doing'

[Guest guest]

August 9,2002

Melbourne,Australia

 

Dear Ken,

 

I have given your question a couple of days of meditative reflection.

 

I think the 'secrets' of Chinese medicine is in the 'doing' of

this ancient medical art . Of course there are many ways of 'doing '

Chinese medicine as there are numerous Chinese medicine practitioners

who have made their mark in this planet over four millennia in China,

a century and a half here in Australia and possibly an equal number

of years over there in America. And all of these 'activities' by

Chinese medicine practitioners in these places were done openly and

not secretly. But for some reasons, as the modern and scientific way

of 'doing' things became the dominant way of thinking in these places

at the turn of the century , a shroud of secrecy enveloped Chinese

medicine practitioners and the activities they do. The 'doing' of

Chinese medicine became a 'secret'. In short, the doing of Chinese

medicine assumed many labels. It became 'integrated' or

'xiang jie he' medicine; 'oriental medicine', 'natural medicine' and

some people even posed the possiblity of making it more 'scientific'

like biomedidicine. All these labels all contibuted to the ever

growing shrouds of secrecy over Chinese medicine. That is why, your

talk might end up being an exercise in peeling off these 'labels of

secrecy '

 

But of course, part of the reason for dispensing these labels of

secrecy on Chinese medicine is to avoid appending the word 'Chinese'

to 'medicine'. And this 'Chineseness' of this form of medicine also

contributes to that veneer of 'secrecy'. However, I happen to believe

that the 'word ' Chinese' in 'Chinese medicine' represents the

intellectual tradition upon which this ancient medical art is

grounded. And one of the pillars of this intellectual tradition is

its emphasis on 'doing'.

 

Rey Tiquia

 

Alliance of Ass

[Guest guest]

Dear Rey,

 

Excellent thoughts. And may I say that if indeed there are any

secrets, that in the 'doing' they will come to light.

 

Regards,

 

~Fernando

 

, " reyna3332000 " <rey@a...> wrote:

> August 9,2002

> Melbourne,Australia

>

> Dear Ken,

>

> I have given your question a couple of days of meditative

reflection.

>

> I think the 'secrets' of Chinese medicine is in the 'doing' of

> this ancient medical art . Of course there are many ways of 'doing '

> Chinese medicine as there are numerous Chinese medicine

practitioners

> who have made their mark in this planet over four millennia in

China,

> a century and a half here in Australia and possibly an equal number

> of years over there in America. And all of these 'activities' by

> Chinese medicine practitioners in these places were done openly and

> not secretly. But for some reasons, as the modern and scientific way

> of 'doing' things became the dominant way of thinking in these

places

> at the turn of the century , a shroud of secrecy enveloped Chinese

> medicine practitioners and the activities they do. The 'doing' of

> Chinese medicine became a 'secret'. In short, the doing of Chinese

> medicine assumed many labels. It became 'integrated' or

> 'xiang jie he' medicine; 'oriental medicine', 'natural medicine' and

> some people even posed the possiblity of making it more 'scientific'

> like biomedidicine. All these labels all contibuted to the ever

> growing shrouds of secrecy over Chinese medicine. That is why, your

> talk might end up being an exercise in peeling off these 'labels of

> secrecy '

>

> But of course, part of the reason for dispensing these labels of

> secrecy on Chinese medicine is to avoid appending the word 'Chinese'

> to 'medicine'. And this 'Chineseness' of this form of medicine also

> contributes to that veneer of 'secrecy'. However, I happen to

believe

> that the 'word ' Chinese' in 'Chinese medicine' represents the

> intellectual tradition upon which this ancient medical art is

> grounded. And one of the pillars of this intellectual tradition is

> its emphasis on 'doing'.

>

> Rey Tiquia

>

> Alliance of Ass

[Guest guest]

Rey:

 

numerous Chinese medicine practitioners who have made their mark in this planet over four millennia in China, a century and a half here in Australia and possibly an equal number of years over there in America.

 

 

 

Marco:

 

These time barriers are new to me, as in 4 millennia?

I was under the impression that the formative period of acerting an identity(s) that became Chinese medicine was about 700 bc. to 150 a.d. (was the meaning of a.d.?)

 

As for Australia I think it is an history of Chinese medicine that has been neglected or "forgotten" since out of sight out of mind...

 

Either way looking forward to find out more about this particular history as time goes by.

 

Rey:

 

....Chinese medicine practitioners in these places were done openly and not secretly. But for some reasons, as the modern and scientific way of 'doing' things became the dominant way of thinking in these places at the turn of the century , a shroud of secrecy enveloped...

 

Marco:

 

Interesting I have never thought about this aspect, just assumed that Chinese medicine had "secrecy" as a trait. The opinion expressed certainly is an view different from popular ideas about Chinese medicine.

Any chance you can elaborate more?

 

Rey:

 

....'integrated' or 'xiang jie he' medicine; 'oriental medicine', 'natural medicine' and some people even posed the possibility of making it more 'scientific' like biomedidicine. All these labels all contributed to the ever growing shrouds of secrecy over Chinese medicine...

 

 

Marco:

 

is xiang jie he the term for what many people call "integrated" medicine?

Of course "integrated medicine will be different in say Canada and Australia camper to Vietnam, Korea.

Still would be interested in reading comments what people on the list deem as "integrated" medicine?

 

 

Is not the wishful but not necessarily thoughtful action-desire to make Chinese more scientific according to the westerncosmovision what integrated medicine is really about?

 

Why did/does these labels contribute to the ever growing shrouds of secrecy?

 

I thought this "trend" was dissolving from the practice of ?

 

Marco:

 

....But of course, part of the reason for dispensing these labels of secrecy on Chinese medicine is to avoid appending the word 'Chinese' to 'medicine'. And this 'Chineseness' of this form of medicine also contributes to that veneer of 'secrecy'. However, I happen to believe that the 'word ' Chinese' in 'Chinese medicine' represents the intellectual tradition upon which this ancient medical art is grounded. And one of the pillars of this intellectual tradition is its emphasis on 'doing'...

 

Marco:

 

An aspect that I also have not contemplated to date.

What is the logistic behind this "not wanting to append" the word Chinese en Chinese medicine?

 

I sometimes say Dong Yi - Oriental medicine because although I agree the intellectual stimulus for what today is known as Chinese medicine is in the region both as in locality and cultural influence of what today is China. However the intriguing inter-cultural, inter-ethnical, inter-"identities" must and probably still is an fascinating and complicated aspect to Chinese medicine. Including, that what the two Koreas and Japan and Vietnam and Taiwan (albeit at a later date) have contributed/evolved within the entity of Chinese medicine is probably also a untapped phenomena, or?

 

As far as I know some form of Chinese medicine have been in Vietnam a thousand years. Vietnam as all other countries must have there "particular particuliaries" and intellectual as well as other strata within the population today known as Vietnam, and hence this most likely would mould Chinese medicine differently from say the same time period in mainland China, or?

 

In recent history I think Vietnam only 2-5,6 years after China adopted a policy to recognise and to actively promote Chinese medicine and that it is the only other country in the world that recognises TCM doctors, is this so?

 

Rey:

And one of the pillars of this intellectual tradition is its emphasis on 'doing'.

 

Marco:

 

I think the word doing here really needs to be well contemplated and carefully approached (this is not directed to or at Rey), because when taken out of context it could give rise to many irresponsible attitudes such as it is not relevant to access source materials.

Judith Fariqhuia in her book Knowing practice touch this aspect when she explains the difference attached to the words experience and theory and practice.

 

I would also love (sorry for the un scientific term:-) to hear about other opinions how to intepretate/approach the "doing" in Chinese medicine?

 

 

As to the "secret" in Chinese medicine, Ken when you mention in an earlier letter about the intentional "flowery" language inTaoist writing and how one needs to be a "detective" a term that I have used to explain the diagnostic procedure of Chinese medicine, probably this has and can contribute profoundly on the "secrecy" aspect to Chinese medicine.

 

Still, would be interesting to compare and contrast other dogmatically writing on Chinese medicine such as Confucian and Buddhist and so forth...

 

Or if you or any one would not mind to summarise some key difference between particular writings influence by each respectively...

 

What I can gather thus far is that the "secrecy" of Chinese medicine is both related to political strategy, probably both intentional and coheres, as well as the entity(s) of Chinese medicine I.e. its particularise and the mere fact it (originates) comes:

 

FAR FAR AWAY A LONG TIME AGO WHEN THE JEDI ORDER WHERE THE GUARDIAN OF THE "FORCE"

 

eh, I am getting confused with things that possibly have influence the idea of mysticisms and secrecy...

 

By the way, we have come accross a book by Wu Wei Ping now to put the content into context I am wondering if any one can mention something that may bring light on the book and how we in a way may use it.

 

 

 

 

 

And finally thanks to Robert for your answer-response to hara....

 

 

 

 

Marco

[Guest guest]

August 11,2002 1:00 pm Sunday

Melbourne

 

 

Dear Ken, Marco , Fernando and fellow listmembers,

 

It seems that I might have to perform my fair share of the 'doing' so that the 'secrets' " will come to light " as Fernando commented .

 

I agree with your statement Ken that:

 

" the greatest secrets of Chinese medicine remain those facts

and insights which people have been trying to convey openly

and publicly for a long, long time. "

 

These " facts and insights " are the 'doings' that 'people' like yourself (Ken) , Fernando, Todd and the list , Dr. Ing Hay ,Dr. Ah-Fong,Dr. Lai-Po Tai, Prof.Cheng Man Tzu (in America) ; Zhang Zhong Jing, Hua tuo, Huang Fu Mi, the Yellow Emperor,Zhang Xi Chun (from China) ,Dr. Ah Sue, the Goon Brothers, Dr. Luo Kuai Seng, Dr Yee Quock Ping (in Australia) are " trying " to convey openly and publicly for a long long time. "

 

And these facts and insights or 'doings' consititute collectively the 'Chineseness' or our medical practice i.e. our intellectual tradition. As you can imagine, this intellectual tradition has a very long history, full of complexities and cuts through the 'four seas' and the 'nine continents' . By the way, the concept of " Chineseness as an intellectual tradition " comes from one of my Phd supervisors early in my research when we were discussing the initial framekwork of my study.

 

The core of this fact, insight, doings i.e. it's Chineseness or intellectual tradition is the 'doing' or practicing of bian zheng lun zhi which involves proposing treatment principles in accordance with the pattern of clinical phenomena. Bian zheng lun zhi which is referred to by Todd in his article " An Open Letter to Interns and Practitioners about TCM Acupuncture " as " the tradition in Chinese medicine of recommending treatment based on the discrimination of patterns is an intellectual tradition which emerged and became systematized from the local health contingencies in ancient China and then extended in time and space to other locales in China, Japan, Asia, America, and Australia.It is now even being extended to Guatemala through the Marco's efforts. It is a set of medical practices that " adapt to different local circumstances , to meet the heterogeneity of the local requirements of the system.. (plasticity) and the capacity .. to incorporate many local circumstances and still retain a recognizable identity (coherence).. as the American feminist philosopher of science Susan Leigh Star would put in l989.

 

Regards,

 

Rey Tiquia

Alliance of Associations of Australia

Phd Candidate

Dept. of History and Philosophy of Science

University of melbourne

Parkville

Victoria

Australia