FW: Dissection,anatomy and the Body

[Guest guest]

August 22,2002 3:40 pm

Melbourne, Australia

 

Dear Todd and Listmembers,

 

 

I happen to look into this question of Chinese dissectors, anatomists and the notion of a Chinese body after reading an article published in one Australian university newsletter which posed the question:

 

" Do the Chinese have bodies ? "

 

I started by looking at those " classical drawings of the interior of the human body " which Todd 'observed' " lack physiological accuracy " . Actually, I began by examining the body charts in Ilza Veith's book which I am pretty sure most of my collegues have seen before. Then I also looked at these body charts and meridian charts from the classical books on Chinese medicine including some from original string bound ones among the old books in my personal library.

 

Looking at these body charts I asked myself: how were these body charts generated? Were they the " begginings of the science of anatomy in China " as Dr. ET Hsueh contended in l921. Are they based upon systematic anatomical dissections? Or is it the product of what Nathan Sivin refers to as " little developed " comparative anatomy.

 

The result of my research revealed that the Chinese do have bodies and that historically , there were actually Chinese dissectors and anatomists. I even traced one of these Chinese 'dissectors' who lived during the period of the Sung Dynasty in China . His name is Yang Jie.

 

To cut a long story short (this is going to be a chapter in my Phd thesis) one of the conclusions of my research revealed that 'dissections' were actually done in the past in China and that these ancient body charts were generated from these 'dissections'. However, the twist of it all was that these 'dissections' were not done on lifeless bodies. It was performed by a 'butcher ' or an executioner or gui zi shou on bodies pregnant with life. While the executioner was doing his 'dissection' , the TCM practitioner together with the artist gazed at the layers of of life which were cold-bloodedly sliced until the 'roots' of life within the shell of the body was laid bare following a final slash from the butcher's knife. Before these lives were sliced into ultimate bits, the artist with his bamboo calligraphy brush puts the whole living interior/exterior of the body together unto the body chart. The Chinese medicine scholar translates into text the 'embodiments' of his findings on the body.

 

This was how TCM came to have a body. And this was how anatomical 'body parts' with which we are very familiar with in the west assummed a dissimilar translation.

 

Regards,

 

Rey Tiquia

Phd Candidate

Dept. of History and Philosophy of Science

The University of Melbourne

Victoria

Australia

 

 

----------

> " 1 " <

>

> Re: Deke Kendall...again???

>Wed, Aug 21, 2002, 3:13 PM

>

 

> , " jramholz " <jramholz>

> wrote:

>

> " However, meridians do not

>> exist in any physical sense, and hence cannot be described by

 

> any

>> known facts.

>

> Manaka describes some experiments he did that could only be

> explained by the existence of an information system other than

> neuroendocrine and which conformed to the chinese

> descriptions of qi and jing luo. I have to admit I had trouble

> following his logic, but it is apparently considered sound by

> geometrists. To be honest, I find both Manaka;s and Kendall's

> ideas intriguing and suspect there may be some truth to both.

>

> There is no doubt that the chinese were skilled dissectors. they

> used many parts of many different animals for food and

> medicine. the pig is a favorite in some parts of china and the

> pig's internal anatomy is almost the same as a humans. so

> even if human dissection was not common at times, the chinese

> probably were influenced by anatomy long before contact with

> enlightenment era western anatomical texts.

>

> On one hand, one cannot help but notice the complete lack of

> physiological accuracy in most classical chinese drawings of

> the interior of the human body. so their seems to have been an

> emphasis amongst acupuncture practitioners on the meridians,

> as it was acupuncturists who made use of such pictures. On

> the other hand, many of the translated classical herbal texts now

> available seem to put little emphasis on the channels and the

> writing (such as zhu dan xi) has a distinct " physiological " quality

> to my eye. Perhaps this is one other area where herbalists and

> acupuncturists may diverge in theory and practice.

>

 

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rey,

 

Thanks for ALL the information...

 

Was it then a punitive act?

 

When do you think you will graduate the Phd.?

 

Please inform use when it is possible to abitian your theses or are you planing to "convert" it into a book?

 

 

Marco

 

[Guest guest]

dear Marco and fellow list members,

 

I am sorry for downloading such a horrific story . " Punitive act " is an understatement. They call it " death by a thousand cuts " . The Chinese name for that style of capital punishment is " ling chi " . It was banned eventually during the reign of the last Dynasty in China after worldwide revulsion following the execution of a couple of Tai ping rebels.

 

I expect to finish my thesis by the end of this year. Then it will go to a few examiners .The results will be known to everyone in the list.

 

Regards ,

 

Rey Tiquia

 

 

 

----------

" Marco " <bergh

 

FW: Dissection,anatomy and the Body

Thu, Aug 22, 2002, 10:02 PM

 

 

Dear Rey,

 

Thanks for ALL the information...

 

Was it then a punitive act?

 

When do you think you will graduate the Phd.?

 

Please inform use when it is possible to abitian your theses or are you planing to " convert " it into a book?

 

 

Marco