was Deke (hi Deke) --Now Reliability in Pulses

[Guest guest]

Jim -

 

I think low inter-rater reliability during the scientific study of pulse diagnosis has led to the marginalization of pulse diagnosis in TCM training. I also think that the need for training large numbers of people in clinical skills is easier accomplished using methods such as history and tongue diagnosis.

 

Here is an example of disparity between slippery and bowstring: one practitioner lands at the surface of the vessel where a bowstring predominates while another presses into the blood stream where a slippery quality is more likely found. Standardized technique is a prerequisite to gaining inter-rater reliability with pulse diagnosis methods.

 

Will

 

I find it ironic that the Chinese would marginalize pulse diagnosis and 5-Phases in

their attempt to standardize CM and make

it more like Western medicine,

[Guest guest]

, WMorris116@A... wrote:

> I think low inter-rater reliability during the scientific study of

pulse diagnosis has led to the marginalization of pulse diagnosis in

TCM training.

> I also think that the need for training large numbers of people in

clinical skills is easier accomplished using methods such as history

and tongue diagnosis.

 

 

Will:

 

I suspect you are correct---and would add that since it is a

physical skill that takes years to develop, most are discouraged or

uninterested in continuing.

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

Alon -

Adequate calibration never occurred with Terry's shot at IRR studies. So far, I think shape/shape is the way to go. Certainly, once people know Hammer's ropy and cotton pulses the reliability gets very high. This is based on classroom observation.

I hope to get down to a well designed study with well calibrated practitioners -- after this next bundle of stuff that's happening.

 

The very first technique to calibrate is position - then depth.

 

 

Will

 

 

Standardized technique is a prerequisite to gaining inter-rater reliability with pulse diagnosis methods.

>>>Will as you know, even when very experienced pulse taker get together from time to time the first thing you have to do is "calibrate"the depth of the different levels between practitioners. How then can you get interrater reliability in a study when a group of patients are evaluated by pulse takers?

[Guest guest]

Standardized technique is a prerequisite to gaining inter-rater reliability with pulse diagnosis methods. >>>Will as you know, even when very experienced pulse taker get together from time to time the first thing you have to do is "calibrate"the depth of the different levels between practitioners. How then can you get interrater reliability in a study when a group of patients are evaluated by pulse takers?

Alon

[Guest guest]

The very first technique to calibrate is position - then depth. >>>Dont you guys have to calibrate every time you start a class etc? Also are you coming to AAOM meeting?

Alon

[Guest guest]

That's exactly right, and we did spend some time " calibrating " .

 

> Alon Marcus wrote:

>

> Standardized technique is a prerequisite to gaining inter-rater

> reliability with pulse diagnosis methods.

> >>>Will as you know, even when very experienced pulse taker get

> together from time to time the first thing you have to do is

> " calibrate " the depth of the different levels between practitioners.

> How then can you get interrater reliability in a study when a group of

> patients are evaluated by pulse takers?

> Alon

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

Alon -

 

Dont you guys have to calibrate every time you start a class etc? I do.

 

Also are you coming to AAOM meeting? Yes

 

Will

[Guest guest]

Also are you coming to AAOM meeting? Yes >>>Yes I am teaching

Alon