Digest Number 1105

[Guest guest]

£Íarco brings up a number of provocative questions and since I have been

doing a lot of work around Hep C, it exposes a number of issues that my

patients and potential clients bring up. I've had this conversation

several times this week and don't know how to resolve it. Hep C is

interesting because it is such an intersection of Western and Chinese.

 

The scenario usually goes like this. I explain that Hepatitis is a

Western Disease, that is, we treat the beginning stages (of which in C

there are none) and the end stages of cirrhosis but we only know about

Chronic Hepatitis C through the Western tests. Lab tests such as viral

counts and ALT may not show the extent of the problem or the good that

herbs may do.

 

I explain that my treatments have 3 objectives. One to rid the virus

(which may or may not happen, I can't promise). Secondly I try to

alleviate symptoms (which many patients say they have none). And thirdly

to prevent further damage to the liver. At which point the client

(actually, usually the spouse) asks, How will we Know if your treatments

are working? In other words, why should we trust you with our money and

time and probally more importantly: Hope. To which I can only say, I can

show you studies of individual herbs, (shaky) Chinese studies but mainly

you have to have trust that it is working. I explain that there is no

Western test for , that is, for the well-being of a

patient. (Sporatic ALT and viral tests fluctuate too much to be reliable

benchmarks in my view.)

 

So that is the dilemna, one brings in the Western disease to the clinic

and ask the patient to accept a chinese solution which cannot be

confirmed by western disease criteria.

 

I further explain that in all good conscience promise a cure, that

is best a treating the Chinese disease, for example, to

simply give a handful of anti-virals would be bad medicine. If the

Western test come back Hep C negative then that, of course, is great but

the single-mindedness of that approach is ill-advised. To me the

question is really the Certainty of the Promise of Success, that the

patient has Someone, Some Thing that is going to work and Western

Medicine offers those statistics. Interferon is a lottery with a 25-45%

pay out but the cost is a years worth of your life. I still struggle

with the vocabulary that can offer that certainty.

 

rambling on,

doug

 

> Message: 22

> Mon, 26 Aug 2002 12:52:17 -0500

> " Marco " <bergh

> Re: Re: CAOM

>

> Dear Zev and Jim and Tod...

>

> Less I am mistaking there are academics working on such topics and once

started would " unravel " such aspects (integrating new-outside knowledge

into....) it would probably be evident that medical interaction and

" inter-exchange " has always taken place. The very fact that Chinese medicine

never has been static is an example of this.

>

> The question Why not integrate/compare/contrast " other " Traditional medical

paradigms with China has been posed by an promising academic in Arazona, at

least in my opinion. She is dealing with the question of women and Chinese

medicine.

>

> Thus a part of the prescription will have incorporated the term usage and

hence recognition of rheumatoid arthritis and the western etilogy strictly

speaking idiopathic but affecting the immune system in a " auto-since " , hence two

natural drugs that have by the sound of it been investigated from a western

pysio-bio-chemical frame work. very interesting how it will affect Art-Science

of implementing prescriptions in the long run I assume is still inconclusive?

>

> What know how leads to treatment implemented?

>

> Thus I think that it is fairly fare to say that AIMS OBJECTIVES LOGISTICS and

IMPLICATION with regard of so call integrated medicine has not been sufficiently

approached in the west. And once we are all sure of still being on the list

after the move, I sent a e-mail explaining why I want a profile with CRANEHERBS,

how many days should I wait before one worries?

>

> Either way once the move maybe a policy of what are aims objectives...research

integrated medicine (which is?) transformative medicine (a term that I feel is

more accurately in descriptive terms if one does not opt for " informative "

medicine).

>

> What then is " pure " Chinese medicine or non integrative Chinese medicine?

> Non integrative Western medicine etc...?

>

> I for better or worst maintain that a patients in their quest for better

health has always practice by going to various health healers-practitioners

(what really is needed are public-privet health systems that aids that natural

tendency):

 

>

>

> Marco Bergh

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I explain that there is no Western test for , that

is, for the well-being of a patient. (Sporatic ALT and viral tests

fluctuate too much to be reliable benchmarks in my view.)

 

 

Doug:

 

Wouldn't regular Western tests demonstrate the effectiveness of your

protocol? You can observe changes in the liver pulse to guide your

treatment strategy---Hep C influence and damage will show as

increased heat and dampness leading to greater stagnation. I

regularly treat some Hep C patients who have gotten biopsied years

later and found insignificant liver change.

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

ÿþ

[Guest guest]

>

>

> <Any patients who are taking various pharmaceuticals report an

> increase in blood pressure using Ru xiang chen tong san or other

> formulas for arthritis?>

>

> Jim Ramholz

>

> ____

 

Jim and others,

 

Jim, what kind of pharmaceuticals?

I, too, have wondered about bi formulas containing fu zi or chuan wu and their

affect on the blood pressure. Does anyone know?

I am not familiar with ru xiang chen tong san, though.

 

Frances Gander