Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 John Hubacher usually gives discounts on his machines to students or groups of people. Pantheon's phone number is 310-822-4965. Colleen Morris Message: 2 Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:56:52 -0700 < pantheon 8C does anyone have a pantheon 8-C or 6-C e-stimulator that they would like to sell? or know where they can be acquired wholesale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 , " Colleen Morris " <colleen@d...> wrote: > > John Hubacher usually gives discounts on his machines to students or > groups of people. Pantheon's phone number is 310-822-4965. > > Colleen Morri thanks colleen anyone need a pantheon? maybe we can put together a CHA order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 I think Pantheon is a great machine for the price - it is smooth and rock-solid. I had John make one with Nogier frequencies several years ago. He can make the machine do other special frequencies you like such as Schumann waves etc. Will , "Colleen Morris" <colleen@d...> wrote: > > John Hubacher usually gives discounts on his machines to students or > groups of people. Pantheon's phone number is 310-822-4965. > > Colleen Morri thanks colleen anyone need a pantheon? maybe we can put together a CHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 Jim - I see Schumann waves as earth frequencies....Will How do you see the relation of Schumann waves to the body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2002 Report Share Posted September 11, 2002 Will: How do you see the relation of Schumann waves to the body? Jim Ramholz , WMorris116@A... wrote: > I think Pantheon is a great machine for the price - it is smooth and rock-solid. I had John make one with Nogier frequencies several years ago. He can make the machine do other special frequencies you like such as Schumann waves etc. > > Will > > > > > > , " Colleen Morris " <colleen@d...> > > wrote: > > > > > > John Hubacher usually gives discounts on his machines to > > students or > > > groups of people. Pantheon's phone number is 310-822-4965. > > > > > > Colleen Morri > > > > thanks colleen > > > > anyone need a pantheon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2002 Report Share Posted September 11, 2002 Will: Do you see any changes in the pulses unique to using the machine? Or changes in the pusles that are easier to make using the machine? Jim Ramholz , WMorris116@A... wrote: > Jim - > > I see Schumann waves as earth frequencies....Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2002 Report Share Posted September 11, 2002 Jim - I am heavily into simpler and low tek methods these days. No homeopathy, Mora machines, fancy electro devices - just my fingers and needles..and a few questions while examining. Oh I forgot, I still prescribe on the basis of lab work - that I like and find reliable. Will Do you see any changes in the pulses unique to using the machine? Or changes in the pusles that are easier to make using the machine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 , WMorris116@A... wrote: > Jim - > > I am heavily into simpler and low tek methods these days. No homeopathy, Not much of a homeopath myself, but it seems pretty low tech to me. I like western medicine, but I have always been low tech in TCM otherwise. However, I have lately become fascinated with electroacupuncture as I have been treating a pet with a bizarre neurological disorder. Today, I gave the very first e-stim treatment of my career to a human being. Go figger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 Todd... > I am heavily into simpler and low tek methods these days. No homeopathy, Not much of a homeopath myself, but it seems pretty low tech to me. chuckle Low tech yes, but simple no. In addition, cohesive theoretical underpinnings such as we have in TCM are missing. There are fragments of cohesion that are detailed in the organon, but the robust qualities of yin yang theory and wu xing theory are lacking. Homeopathic practice often tags symptoms or states of mind to remedies. That said, I have seen remarkable things happen at very deep levels when the right remedy is prescribed to the right person at the right time and therein lies the rub. Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 I still prescribe on the basis of lab work - that I like and find reliable. >>>Will can you give more info thanks alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 electroacupuncture as I have been treating a pet with a bizarre neurological disorder. Today, I gave the very first e-stim treatment of my career to a human being. >>>>Electroacupuncture or stim can have some very important effects. I use it often to increase fibroblastic formation. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 , WMorris116@A... wrote: In addition, cohesive theoretical underpinnings > such as we have in TCM are missing. Will and most homeopaths consider it heresy to consider anything but the symptoms. once you start to conceptualize how the body works, you are lost. I disagree. however, in india, where homeopathy is well established, there have been some efforts to integrate it into ayurveda. I read at least one book on this topic published by an Indian press many years ago. clearly many remedies can be assigned to zang fu patterns. Nux has many elements of liver qi depression and pulsatilla spleen qi xu with dampness. I noticed that in my first homeopathy class in 1988 and my materia medica contains margin notes I wrote during lecture reflecting this. That said, I have seen remarkable things happen at very > deep levels when the right remedy is prescribed me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 I haven't used any electronics since I first started 22 years ago. This doesn't mean I am totally against them. . . some of Dr. Manaka's and other Japanese physicians work interests me, but for the type of work I do (internal medicine, little musculoskeletal work), I don't find it necessary. Will, I find your applications of SHL prescriptions interesting. Sometimes I work along similar lines. On Wednesday, September 11, 2002, at 10:47 PM, WMorris116 wrote: > Jim - > > I am heavily into simpler and low tek methods these days. No > homeopathy, Mora machines, fancy electro devices - just my fingers and > needles..and a few questions while examining. Oh I forgot, I still > prescribe on the basis of lab work - that I like and find reliable. > > Will > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 The Chinese medical literature is so vast, that I am sure we'd find some of the ideas in the Organon there if we tapped into it. I regularly consult the Organon for inspiration. Homeopathy is a great medicine, but there is one problem I find. For serious problems, the remedies are either right on the nose or miss completely. In those cases, the patient may worsen without relief. In Chinese medicine, there is more of a range of responses, not all or nothing. Because of this, one needs a very high level of practice to have acceptable clinical success. This is why I stopped giving remedies several years ago. One thing homeopathy shares with Chinese medicine is its emphasis on phenomonology, i.e. recording symptoms and treating patterns, as opposed to cellular analysis and morphology. On Thursday, September 12, 2002, at 07:47 AM, WMorris116 wrote: > Low tech yes, but simple no. In addition, cohesive theoretical > underpinnings such as we have in TCM are missing. There are fragments > of cohesion that are detailed in the organon, but the robust qualities > of yin yang theory and wu xing theory are lacking. Homeopathic > practice often tags symptoms or states of mind to remedies. That said, > I have seen remarkable things happen at very deep levels when the > right remedy is prescribed to the right person at the right time and > therein lies the rub. > > Will > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 Where can I get this book, and what is its title? On Thursday, September 12, 2002, at 10:18 AM, wrote: > and most homeopaths consider it heresy to consider anything > but the symptoms. once you start to conceptualize how the body > works, you are lost. I disagree. however, in india, where > homeopathy is well established, there have been some efforts > to integrate it into ayurveda. I read at least one book on this topic > published by an Indian press many years ago. clearly many > remedies can be assigned to zang fu patterns. Nux has many > elements of liver qi depression and pulsatilla spleen qi xu with > dampness. I noticed that in my first homeopathy class in 1988 > and my materia medica contains margin notes I wrote during > lecture reflecting this. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 wrote: > > I haven't used any electronics since I first started 22 years ago. This doesn't mean I am totally against them. . . some of Dr. Manaka's and other Japanese physicians work interests me, but for the type of work I do (internal medicine, little musculoskeletal work), I don't find it necessary. Yeah, me too. Though when a sciatica case comes in with an obvious nerve impingement. I'll through on the e-stim on either side of the nerve as it exits the spine to raise the pain threshold. I usually think of e-stim as over accomidating the nerve. But Alon mentioned something about fibroblastic formation? Can you describe what that's all about, Alon? -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 But Alon mentioned something about fibroblastic formation? Can youdescribe what that's all about, Alon?>>>>Electrical stimulation can have both physical and neural effects. With DC stimulation there is increased fibroblastic activation around the + node. I use this when I am treating ligament or tendinous laxity Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 Yes Todd - this is true and I am aware of these efforts - but the foundation can't changed by an overlay. Will and most homeopaths consider it heresy to consider anything but the symptoms. once you start to conceptualize how the body works, you are lost. I disagree. however, in india, where homeopathy is well established, there have been some efforts to integrate it into ayurveda. I read at least one book on this topic published by an Indian press many years ago. clearly many remedies can be assigned to zang fu patterns. Nux has many elements of liver qi depression and pulsatilla spleen qi xu with dampness. I noticed that in my first homeopathy class in 1988 and my materia medica contains margin notes I wrote during lecture reflecting this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 Z'ev I agree with you on this - I think that Hanneman was a brilliant and syncratic thinker. He absorbed early Greek and other available writings including Avicena. Therefore it stands to reason that other Asian medical thinking might have found fragmentary expression in his works. Also, Herring's law of cure is a principle that TCM people might do well with for case management insight. Certainly Worsely seemed to have absorbed it into 'classical acupuncture' tm. Will The Chinese medical literature is so vast, that I am sure we'd find some of the ideas in the Organon there if we tapped into it. I regularly consult the Organon for inspiration. Homeopathy is a great medicine, but there is one problem I find. For serious problems, the remedies are either right on the nose or miss completely. In those cases, the patient may worsen without relief. In Chinese medicine, there is more of a range of responses, not all or nothing. Because of this, one needs a very high level of practice to have acceptable clinical success. This is why I stopped giving remedies several years ago. One thing homeopathy shares with Chinese medicine is its emphasis on phenomonology, i.e. recording symptoms and treating patterns, as opposed to cellular analysis and morphology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 Worsley's 'classical acupuncture' is a hybrid of Wu Wei-ping's five phase acupuncture and homeopathic theory. Peter Eckman's " In the Footsteps of the Yellow Emperor " has an interesting discussion on the development of Worsley's method. However, the first chapter of Jin Gui Yao Lue, 'Transmission of Diseases', clause 12, has a similar 'law of cure'. It says that skin sores (silver scale sore/jin yin chuang) that spread from the mouth to the extremities, are curable, but from the extremities to the mouth are incurable. Patterns moving out to the exterior are improving, moving from exterior to the interior are getting worse. On Thursday, September 12, 2002, at 11:10 PM, WMorris116 wrote: > Also, Herring's law of cure is a principle that TCM people might do > well with for case management insight. Certainly Worsely seemed to > have absorbed it into 'classical acupuncture' tm. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 , " " < zrosenbe@s...> wrote: It says that skin > sores (silver scale sore/jin yin chuang) that spread from the mouth to > the extremities, are curable, but from the extremities to the mouth are > incurable. Patterns moving out to the exterior are improving, moving > from exterior to the interior are getting worse slight difference, I think. ZZJ was describing the course of a disease and hering's law describes the results of therapy. I don't think ZZJ was referring to what happens during treatment in this passage. Of course, the goal of treating an exterior invasion is " Patterns moving out to the exterior " . But hering would also say this is also true in all chronic illnesses. TCM does not agree. internally generated chronic diseases are not typically treated by moving the pathogen to the exterior, but rather by draining it from the interior and supplementing vacuity. Homeopathy is a realm of absolute laws that are somewhat divorced from actual phenemonology in many cases, IMO. there is no evidence that Hahnemann had access to chinese source materia in formulating his hypotheses. And it doesn't matter whether we can find vague similarities between brief passages from ancient chinese texts. Whatever ZZJ meant, the true definition of hering's law is not part of TCM. It may apply here and there, but that's not a law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 Thanks Z'ev - yes I've read this. It seemed pretty inconclusive regarding the source of the transmitting method. Will Peter Eckman's "In the Footsteps of the Yellow Emperor" has an interesting discussion on the development of Worsley's method. <<However, the first chapter of Jin Gui Yao Lue, 'Transmission of Diseases', clause 12, has a similar 'law of cure'. It says that skin sores (silver scale sore/jin yin chuang) that spread from the mouth to the extremities, are curable, but from the extremities to the mouth are incurable. Patterns moving out to the exterior are improving, moving from exterior to the interior are getting worse.>> Yes - I've often wondered if there was an influence based on this passage. And Worsely bought heavily into Herring's notion of cure moving in a reverse chronilogical order. I find it odd that it was not disclosed. Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 In , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > However, the first chapter of Jin Gui Yao Lue, 'Transmission of > Diseases', clause 12, has a similar 'law of cure'. It says that skin sores (silver scale sore/jin yin chuang) that spread from the mouth to the extremities, are curable, but from the extremities to the mouth are incurable. Patterns moving out to the exterior are improving, moving from exterior to the interior are getting worse. Z'ev: Does the JGYL go into any details about the rationale for its conclusion? Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 It is also a significant contribution to pulse diagnosis....will The first chapter of the text seems to be a collection of medical sayings of Zhang Zhong-jing, in no particular context or order. For me, it is a collection of little gems on five phase principles and their applications to medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2002 Report Share Posted September 13, 2002 Not the version (New World Press) I have. We need a new one. I have a Chinese version in simple characters, but it has no commentary. The first chapter of the text seems to be a collection of medical sayings of Zhang Zhong-jing, in no particular context or order. For me, it is a collection of little gems on five phase principles and their applications to medicine. On Friday, September 13, 2002, at 03:34 PM, James Ramholz wrote: > In , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > > However, the first chapter of Jin Gui Yao Lue, 'Transmission of > > Diseases', clause 12, has a similar 'law of cure'. It says that > skin sores (silver scale sore/jin yin chuang) that spread from the > mouth to the extremities, are curable, but from the extremities to > the mouth are incurable. Patterns moving out to the exterior are > improving, moving from exterior to the interior are getting worse. > > > Z'ev: > > Does the JGYL go into any details about the rationale for its > conclusion? > > > Jim Ramholz > > <image.tiff> > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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