Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 What do you say when the patient's physician, usually via a spouse, asks to know the ingredients of an herbal formula they taking, or I am recommending they take. Even if they were to look each of the 14 or so ingredients, named in pinyun, they would have no idea what its action is synergistically, unless they were trained. After I mute the phone and vent, how do I politely and intelligentlly handle these absurd requests? Certainly we have all experienced this scenario. Thanks for your feedback. Frances -- Frances Lea Gander, L.Ac. Sykesville, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 I usually tell the patient (since the physician) that they are Chinese herb ingredients, and that the Western physician is not trained in Chinese herbal medicine, so couldn't know what the action of the herbs were. Having said that, I'll either give a list of the herbs to the patient, since they have a right to the information, and tell them that if the physician wishes to contact me, that is fine. It happens all the time, more and more now. I think many physicians are concerned about herb-drug interactions, and the press on such things as gingko and st. johnswort is responsible for the trend. I just try to be diplomatic while recognizing the difficulty that laypeople and physicians have in understanding what we do. We get very little press that explains how Chinese herbal medicine works. On Tuesday, September 10, 2002, at 02:16 PM, Frances Gander wrote: > What do you say when the patient's physician, usually via a spouse, > asks to know the ingredients of an herbal formula they taking, or I am > recommending they take. Even if they were to look each of the 14 or so > ingredients, named in pinyun, they would have no idea what its action > is synergistically, unless they were trained. After I mute the phone > and vent, how do I politely and intelligentlly handle these absurd > requests? Certainly we have all experienced this scenario. Thanks > for your feedback. > > Frances > -- > Frances Lea Gander, L.Ac. > Sykesville, MD > > <image.tiff> > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 Frances, I usually do as Z'ev does: provide a list of pinyin and botanical names, and if it is a complex case (for example, a cancer patient entering a clinical trial but wanting to continue her herbs), I will also give some actions of the herbs I am prescribing. I have never once heard back from an MD about the herbs. Julie - Frances Gander <fgander Tuesday, September 10, 2002 2:16 PM Re: their doctor asks... > What do you say when the patient's physician, usually via a spouse, asks to know the ingredients of an herbal formula they taking, or I am recommending they take. Even if they were to look each of the 14 or so ingredients, named in pinyun, they would have no idea what its action is synergistically, unless they were trained. After I mute the phone and vent, how do I politely and intelligentlly handle these absurd requests? Certainly we have all experienced this scenario. Thanks for your feedback. > > Frances > -- > Frances Lea Gander, L.Ac. > Sykesville, MD > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 Frances: For the most part, my situation is similar to Z'ev and Janet's. Most physicians just want to be reassured that nothing that they read about in the papers is in a formula you are giving their patients. But it is also a good opportunity to communicate the effectiveness of your formulas and acupuncture treatments. If they see improvement beyond what they usually get on their own because you're working with their patient, it speaks all the more highly for your and CM's reputation. I've had a number of MDs come to my office over the years to observe as part of a local program to gain some familiarity with alternative medicine. Unfortunately, most were anxious to get the occasion over with. But one has even had his patients who we don't share come to my office for herbs; interestingly, he does medical acupuncture himself and also distributes herbs. If they see your success with their difficult patients, and even though they don't usually refer to an alternative medicine practitioner, they will tell their patients who want to try it to come and see you. Except if something serious happens to a patient, any communication should be considered positive. It makes them aware of you and your effectiveness in treatment. Jim Ramholz , Frances Gander <fgander@c...> wrote: > What do you say when the patient's physician, usually via a spouse, asks to know the ingredients of an herbal formula they taking, or I am recommending they take. Even if they were to look each of the 14 or so ingredients, named in pinyun, they would have no idea what its action is synergistically, unless they were trained. After I mute the phone and vent, how do I politely and intelligentlly handle these absurd requests? Certainly we have all experienced this scenario. Thanks for your feedback. > > Frances > -- > Frances Lea Gander, L.Ac. > Sykesville, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2002 Report Share Posted September 10, 2002 , Frances Gander <fgander@c...> wrote: Frances, As a medical internist, my patients use a wide variety of providers and resources. Some wonderful and trustworthy, some less so. It's just Good Medicine to try to keep track. Medical physicians track each other; try not to take it personally if they track you. I suggest you send a note to your patient's physicians. Professional peers do that, as we all recognize that no one specialty has all the answers. I believe sending notes to PMD's would go a long way towards " harmonizing " CM and WM relations. Harmoniously, Sam Sam Sencil D.O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2002 Report Share Posted September 11, 2002 , Frances Gander < fgander@c...> wrote: how do I politely and intelligentlly handle these absurd requests? Well, start with liver 3 and a few deep breaths, then count to 10. the doctor may be thinking he is acting in the best interest of the patient. However, the patient must release his records in writing. the doctor cannot request the records without the patient's permission. If you do not have a written release from the patient, ask the doctor to FAX you one. Then provide him a list of the herbs in latin pharmaceutical with dosages. the patient owns his medical records and we should comply with his wishes or those of a judge. that's pretty much it. you are under no obligation to discuss your finding with the MD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2002 Report Share Posted September 11, 2002 I wonder how many of the schools actually teach this in their programs. It's been a while but I don't remember learning about the legal aspects of charting (except how long to keep it) Colleen Well, start with liver 3 and a few deep breaths, then count to 10. the doctor may be thinking he is acting in the best interest of the patient. However, the patient must release his records in writing. the doctor cannot request the records without the patient's permission. If you do not have a written release from the patient, ask the doctor to FAX you one. Then provide him a list of the herbs in latin pharmaceutical with dosages. the patient owns his medical records and we should comply with his wishes or those of a judge. that's pretty much it. you are under no obligation to discuss your finding with the MD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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