Guest guest Posted September 11, 2002 Report Share Posted September 11, 2002 From James: ...Do you think this variability of seasons and different growing areas is a good argument to standardize any individual herbs? There can even be substantial variations in quality within the same farming operation. Recently we were sourcing some hou pu from Sichuan and obtained several samples of material from the same grower. Our analytical lab in Beijing found significant difference in the level of certain chemical components. It turned out that the lower content material was from younger trees that the grower had planted about 4 years ago and the higher content material was from trees that were a minimum of 8 years old. The material looked quite similar. In terms of standardization, that's a very complicated subject. I have been Chairing a committee within AHPA that has recently completed a White Paper on Standardization. It is quite comprehensive and well worth reading. In fact Todd was one of the reviewers, so you can ask his opinion on its value. It can be purchased from the AHPA. Aside from that (sorry if that sounded like a commercial pitch), I would say that it is not possible to fully standardize most herbs. The ones for which it is possible are likely candidates for drugs because they have one or two specific chemical components that are responsible for their bioactivity. Or, at least that is how it appears when evaluated under certain research designs. So the goal for standardization needs to be defined. Standardization has become most relevant to clinical research since one wants to be able to quantitatively and/or qualitatively compare the research material to the material that later becomes commercially available since its sellers will likely be making claims based on the benefits demonstrated by study subjects who took the research material. Partial standardization by chemical analysis, wherein you quantify one or more chemical components, regardless of whether it has been demonstrated that the components have relevant bioactivity, can be very useful in developing reference points to which raw material sources and manufacturing protocols can be comparatively assessed. Maybe a better question for this group would be what approaches to and what degree of standardization would be appropriate, or should be expected, from companies that supply medicinal herb materials to TCM practitioners in the US. Stephen Morrissey James Ramholz [jramholz] Wednesday, September 11, 2002 5:08 PM Re: cooking Stephen: Good point; that well may be part of it, too. This probably helps create the confusion in various texts about taste and meridian induction. But when experimenting with or adjusting different combinations or amounts of individual herbs in a formula, I track the effectiveness in the pulses and the sensation of how the formula moves through different meridians in my body. Then give the formula to a student so they can do the same; then we compare notes. So even the same bottle of individual herbs, when used in a different ratio, can also create the difference I'm talking about. Working this way has made me fond of sometimes using the Fibonacci series of numbers (1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13 . . .) when putting together an herbal formula. Do you think this variability of seasons and different growing areas is a good argument to standardize any individual herbs? Jim Ramholz , " stephen " <stephen@b...> wrote: > Jim, I would guess that it could be because the encapsulation of the herbs preserves them better than being exposed to the air from repeatedly opening and closing the source jar. If that or something like it is not the case then I would assume that a varying quality of raw materials were used in the different batches, something that is quite common to see when companies source from different growing areas and at different times of year. Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 , " stephen " <stephen@b...> wrote: > I have been Chairing a committee within AHPA that has > recently completed a White Paper on Standardization. It is quite > comprehensive and well worth reading. I reviewed this paper before publication and had some of my comments incorporated into the final draft. I must highly recommend this paper to anyone who is interested in the issue of standardization. this is the most thorough and balanced discussion of the subject I have ever seen. It clarifies many misconceptions and illuminates several important points of contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 > , " stephen " <stephen@b...> > I have been Chairing a committee within AHPA that has > > recently completed a White Paper on Standardization. It is > quite comprehensive and well worth reading. Stephen: Was this paper published, or is there a link to it? Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 , " James Ramholz " < jramholz> wrote: > > Stephen: > > Was this paper published, or is there a link to it? > > > Jim Ramholz I believe Stephen said it was for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2002 Report Share Posted September 14, 2002 > > Was this paper published, or is there a link to it? > > Jim Ramholz I believe Stephen said it was for sale. Todd Jim, sorry I must have missed your original email. AHPA sells this document, along with some other Guidance Documents on the Manufacture and Sale of Botanical Extracts. This is far from a money making venture, in fact it costs the association many thousands of dollars to get these doc out. If you're interested, AHPA can be reached at 301-588-1171. Stephen Morrissey Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 Dear Stephen and list... I am also wondering where can one get hold of the white paper on standardization and natural drugs? (herbs...) This would be very interesting to see and useful, hence any chance of obtaining the paper via e-mail? or web site? Marco Bergh - Simon Monday, September 16, 2002 1:45 AM AW: Re: cooking / standardization Where can I get a copy of this White Paper on Standardization? Is it on theinternet? Can somebody e-mail me a copy (s.becker).Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 Simon, I checked today and the Standardization White Paper has not made it to the printers yet. It is 35 pages long and the American Herbal Products Association will be selling it by November, I estimate. I don't know the price, in fact they haven't set the price yet, although I'll say that they are hoping to break even. AHPA can be contacted via their website at www.ahpa.org Perhaps I will send out a notice via CHA when the document is available if that would be of interest. Stephen Simon [s.becker] Monday, September 16, 2002 12:46 AM AW: Re: cooking / standardization Where can I get a copy of this White Paper on Standardization? Is it on the internet? Can somebody e-mail me a copy (s.becker). Thanks. Simon Becker Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bluepoppy.com has one translation of Ye Tianshi's work on this topic. Will Does anybody have a full list of herbs as they pertain to extra channels and or that enter the extra channels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Does anybody have a full list of herbs as they pertain to extra channels and or that enter the extra channels thanks Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 You might wanna try here: http://Acupuncture.com/Herbology/Eight.htm > Alon Marcus wrote: > > Does anybody have a full list of herbs as they pertain to extra > channels and or that enter the extra channels > thanks Alon -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2002 Report Share Posted September 22, 2002 Will Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2002 Report Share Posted September 22, 2002 Al Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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