Guest guest Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 Hi Will, Re: ma qian zi (sm strychni), you wrote: > ... arouses the spirit Please explain: removes apathy?, treats depression?, CNS Tonic? > , courses the channels... Same as Free Channels (in obstruction/Bi Syndrome)? > ... I know many are familiar with it's use for cancer. Will Aye, and many are not! Please fill us in; what types of cancer, dose rate and protocol used, etc... Best regards, WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland WWW : http://www.research.teagasc.ie/grange/search.htm Email: < Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Email: < Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2002 Report Share Posted September 15, 2002 Phil As Z'ev stated, Jia Kun uses it in the formula ping xiao dan. His book "Diagnosis and Treatment of Carcinoma in " gives many treatment protocols with doses. He also used it as a preventative. I have used it but gave up on it when Seven Forests came out with a more medically-legal formula called chih-ko and curcuma. Re: ma qian zi (sm strychni), you wrote: > ... arouses the spirit Please explain: removes apathy?, treats depression?, CNS Tonic? Here it excites the CNS, promotes blood circulation, and promotes breathing - I take it as the result of increased oxygen supply in the brain. Based my interpretation of the sources I have, it would be an arousal of spirit in the context of clouding of spirit by fever or cancerous processes. > , courses the channels... Same as Free Channels (in obstruction/Bi Syndrome)? Yes - the "Pharmacopoeia of the People's Republic of China" lists the action as promoting the movement of qi and blood in the collaterals. It is used for protracted arthritis, rheumatoid arthralgia, numbness and paralysis (does this sound homeopathic?), sequellae of poliomyelitis, and traumatic injuries. > ... I know many are familiar with it's use for cancer. Will Aye, and many are not! Please fill us in; what types of cancer, dose rate and protocol used, etc... I don't have my copy of "Diagnosis and Treatment of Carcinoma in " here because I lent it out; this is the place to look for protocols using this material for cancer. Hsu lists febrile diseases, abdmonial masses, carbuncles and malignant furuncles. He gives dosages at .6 to 1.2 g. The "Pharmacopoeia of the People's Republic of China" lists .3 to .6 g...I feel safer with smaller doses. Also - I don't need to tell you - if there is a problem what do you say to the patients family? Well......we gave her strychnine. Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 As Z'ev stated, Jia Kun uses it in the formula ping xiao dan. His book "Diagnosis and Treatment of Carcinoma in " gives many treatment protocols with doses. He also used it as a preventative. I have used it but gave up on it when Seven Forests came out with a more medically-legal formula called chih-ko and curcuma. >>>>I have used it on only 2 patient with ma qian zi and in one with a rare lymphoma it seemed to have helped. The other had breast cancer and I cant say it was helpful. What is the experience of people on the list Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 Z'ev I don't think Seven Forests ever modified the names of the formulas. Several companies still use this nomenclature including many of the Taiwanese companies. It was actually Sam Cheng of Qualiherb who convinced Hong Yen Hsu to use that convention when Sam was with Sun Ten. Also, isn't Paul Unschuld continuing the use of Wade-Giles? You'll have to ask Subhuti why he chose the name - I haven't a clue. But I do like the formula. Will Did Seven Forests ever modify the names of its formulas? Pinyin has been used instead of wade-giles to transliterate Chinese for many years now. And why curcuma in the formula name? It is not one of the sovereign medicinals in the formula as far as anyone knows. Does any other company still use the Hong Yen-hsu naming system? It is sorely outdated at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2002 Report Share Posted September 16, 2002 Did Seven Forests ever modify the names of its formulas? Pinyin has been used instead of wade-giles to transliterate Chinese for many years now. And why curcuma in the formula name? It is not one of the sovereign medicinals in the formula as far as anyone knows. Does any other company still use the Hong Yen-hsu naming system? It is sorely outdated at this point. On Sunday, September 15, 2002, at 09:19 PM, WMorris116 wrote: > Phil > > As Z'ev stated, Jia Kun uses it in the formula ping xiao dan. His book > " Diagnosis and Treatment of Carcinoma in " gives many > treatment protocols with doses. He also used it as a preventative. I > have used it but gave up on it when Seven Forests came out with a more > medically-legal formula called chih-ko and curcuma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2002 Report Share Posted September 17, 2002 Hi Will, Many thanks for your useful feedback. Is either of the following books available on CD?: 1. Jia Kun's: " Diagnosis and Treatment of Carcinoma in Chinese Medicine 2. " Pharmacopoeia of the People's Republic of China " Best wishes, Phil >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will wrote: " As Z'ev stated, Jia Kun uses it in the formula ping xiao dan. His book " Diagnosis and Treatment of Carcinoma in Chinese Medicine " gives many treatment protocols with doses. He also used it as a preventative. I have used it but gave up on it when Seven Forests came out with a more medically-legal formula called chih-ko and curcuma. Re: ma qian zi (sm strychni) .. arouses the spirit = excites CNS, promotes blood circulation, and promotes breathing - I take it as the result of increased oxygen supply in the brain. ... it would be an arousal of spirit in the context of clouding of spirit by fever or cancerous processes. ....courses the channels = Frees Channels (in obstruction/Bi Syndrome). The " Pharmacopoeia of the People's Republic of China " lists the action as promoting the movement of qi and blood in the collaterals. It is used for protracted arthritis, rheumatoid arthralgia, numbness and paralysis (does this sound homeopathic?), sequellae of poliomyelitis, and traumatic injuries. Re Maqianzi and cancer ... I lent my copy of " Diagnosis and Treatment of Carcinoma in " . Tthis is the place to look for protocols using this material for cancer. Hsu lists febrile diseases, abdmonial masses, carbuncles and malignant furuncles. He gives dosages at .6 to 1.2 g. The " Pharmacopoeia of the People's Republic of China " lists .3 to .6 g...I feel safer with smaller doses. Also, if there is a problem what do you say to the patients family? Well......we gave her strychnine... Will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland WWW : http://www.research.teagasc.ie/grange/search.htm Email: < Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Email: < Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2002 Report Share Posted September 17, 2002 Phil - Diagnosis and Treatment of Carcinoma in is a fairly inexpensive paperback available through Redwing. However, Pharmacopoeia of the People's Republic of China is very expensive and difficult to get. Neither one is available in CD format unfortunately. Publishers - note the clear identification of market inclination here. Will Is either of the following books available on CD?: 1. Jia Kun's: "Diagnosis and Treatment of Carcinoma in 2. "Pharmacopoeia of the People's Republic of China" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2002 Report Share Posted September 17, 2002 isn't Paul Unschuld continuing the use of Wade-Giles >>>Unfortunately alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2002 Report Share Posted September 17, 2002 No, he isn't. Will is referring to earlier works of Unschuld in the 80's and early 90's. His later works, such as " Essential Subtleties on the Silver Sea " use pinyin. On Tuesday, September 17, 2002, at 04:54 PM, Alon Marcus wrote: > isn't Paul Unschuld continuing the use of Wade-Giles > >>>Unfortunately > alon > <image.tiff> > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2002 Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 Essential Subtleties on the Silver Sea >>>Is this the eye disease one? I have not seen it Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2002 Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 Yes, it is on the subject of eye diseases. On Wednesday, September 18, 2002, at 09:23 AM, ALON MARCUS wrote: > Essential Subtleties on the Silver Sea > >>>Is this the eye disease one? I have not seen it > Alon > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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