Guest guest Posted September 18, 2002 Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 I do not believe the statement attributed to Sionneau is actually his. In my recollection the quote in Acupuncture Today was in an interview with one of the dean's of the Pacific college, not Sionneau > > > > Digest Number 1135 >17 Sep 2002 18:15:13 -0000 > > >Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare >practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics >specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional >services, including board approved online continuing education. > > >------ > >There are 15 messages in this issue. > >Topics in this digest: > > 1. Powdered formulas > " Geoffrey Hudson, L.Ac. " <list > 2. Re: Sionneau on decoctions > " James Ramholz " <jramholz > 3. Re: Sionneau on decoctions > " dallaskinguk " <dallasking > 4. Re: Re: pantheon 8C > " " <zrosenbe > 5. AW: Re: cooking / standardization > " Simon " <s.becker > 6. RE: Sionneau on decoctions > Rory Kerr <rorykerr > 7. Re: Sionneau on decoctions > Rory Kerr <rorykerr > 8. Re: Sionneau on decoctions > Rory Kerr <rorykerr > 9. Re: Sionneau on decoctions > " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001 > 10. " categories " > " Marco " <bergh > 11. " Categories " > " Marco " <bergh > 12. Re: Sionneau on decoctions > " James Ramholz " <jramholz > 13. Re: Sionneau on decoctions > " James Ramholz " <jramholz > 14. Re: Maqianzi-Strychnos Nux vomicae > " " < > 15. Supply Houses for Indian (Vedic) Herbs > " " < > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 1 > Mon, 16 Sep 2002 22:09:17 -0700 > " Geoffrey Hudson, L.Ac. " <list >Powdered formulas > >It seems that many people on this list are using granulated formulas >(single, formula, or a combination). I was wondering if some of you >might mention how you go about pricing these for your patients. I've >noticed that some of the granules are pricey. > >Geoff > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 2 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 05:45:02 -0000 > " James Ramholz " <jramholz >Re: Sionneau on decoctions > >He includes not only Taiwan but China in his declaration, doesn't >he? Although I haven't used decoctions since the 80s, I do love >sweeping generalizations. > >Sionneau would then be the one to ask about whether he creates >herbal formulas using classical ideas about taste, meridian >induction, or 5-Phases info. Can he respond or does anyone know? > > >Jim Ramholz > > > > > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 3 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 05:53:24 -0000 > " dallaskinguk " <dallasking >Re: Sionneau on decoctions > >It would seem to me that, in the compromise that is medicine, there >are patients who will only ever take patents as well as others, >particularly those needing long term management, for whom patents are >entirely appropriate. So, for those of us who think that we need to >work toward a broader (more realistically confident?) view of Chinese >medicine, such opinions (what else could they be?)do need to be >challenged. > >Simon K > >, Julie Chambers <info@j...> wrote: > > Calm down, everyone! He was just expressing his OPINION, and he has >a right to his OPINION. > > I'll bet if any of us were interviewed about our views, we would >say some very opinionated things about our practices, that might >cause peoples' hair to bristle! > > > > Julie > > > > Does no one else find this a bit offensive? Quite an elitist >view, and disappointing to see it published in a professional paper. >Maybe he should consider writing for Quackbusters. > > > > >>>>And i would mind seeing his practice audited > > Alon > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 4 > Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:35:26 -0700 > " " <zrosenbe >Re: Re: pantheon 8C > >Why don't you think it matters that physicians in different cultures >have similar ideas? It certainly means a lot to me. While the >importance of what is stated in Hering's Law is not a central concept >in Chinese medicine as it is in homeopathy ( and I consider Chinese >medicine to be a much vaster, broader field. . .it has had much more >time to collect information), it is interesting, at least to me and >others, that there are similar ideas in both systems. > >I didn't mean, however, to legitimize Dr, Worsley's adaption of the Law >of Cure as having Chinese support. Clearly he adapted it directly. >from homeopathy, having no apparent training in the Chinese herbal >medicine tradition. > > > >On Friday, September 13, 2002, at 02:57 PM, wrote: > > > And it doesn't matter > > whether we can find vague similarities between brief passages > > from ancient chinese texts. Whatever ZZJ meant, the true > > definition of hering's law is not part of TCM. It may apply here > > and there, but that's not a law. > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 5 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 09:15:39 +0200 > " Simon " <s.becker >AW: Re: cooking / standardization > >Please do send out a notice when the paper is available. Thanks. > >Simon Becker > > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 6 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:18:03 -0400 > Rory Kerr <rorykerr >RE: Sionneau on decoctions > >At 9:39 PM -0400 9/16/02, Nashua Natural Medicine wrote: > > " In order to promote the practice of Chinese medicine, it would be > >much better to have a handful of well-trained, effective > >practitioners than thousands of superficially-trained, mediocre ones. " > > > >Does no one else find this a bit offensive? Quite an elitist view, > >and disappointing to see it published in a professional paper. > >Maybe he should consider writing for Quackbusters. > > > >Sean Doherty >-- > >Surely the objection you should raise to his comment is not whether >he is an elitist (which is ad hominem and beside the point), but >whether it is fair to say that we are turning out thousands of >mediocre practitioners; and whether it would be preferable to have >fewer but better-trained practitioners who got better results. > >Rory >-- > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 7 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:27:33 -0400 > Rory Kerr <rorykerr >Re: Sionneau on decoctions > >At 5:45 AM +0000 9/17/02, James Ramholz wrote: > >He includes not only Taiwan but China in his declaration, doesn't > >he? Although I haven't used decoctions since the 80s, I do love > >sweeping generalizations. >-- >I believe he was speaking to an American audience, since the >interviewer was representing an American publication that is unlikely >to be read in the PRC and Taiwan. > > > > >Sionneau would then be the one to ask about whether he creates > >herbal formulas using classical ideas about taste, meridian > >induction, or 5-Phases info. Can he respond or does anyone know? >-- >He seems to be a serious student of the classics (I attended a >weekend seminar on acupuncture with him a while back which was >entirely sourced in the Han and pre-Han literature). He was trained >in China. > >Rory > > >-- > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 8 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 08:57:03 -0400 > Rory Kerr <rorykerr >Re: Sionneau on decoctions > >At 5:53 AM +0000 9/17/02, dallaskinguk wrote: > >It would seem to me that, in the compromise that is medicine, there > >are patients who will only ever take patents as well as others, > >particularly those needing long term management, for whom patents are > >entirely appropriate. So, for those of us who think that we need to > >work toward a broader (more realistically confident?) view of Chinese > >medicine, such opinions (what else could they be?)do need to be > >challenged >-- >Yes, and that's why I posted his comments here. PS teaches quite a >bit in the USA, so his opinions are informed by that; and by his >knowledge of standards in China, where he was trained. > >Regarding the use of patents, I think he is saying that he won't give >patents to patients if he thinks that he will get better results with >a decoction -- he refuses. I think he's referring to initial and >medium term treatment, not to long term care after the condition is >completely stabilized, but the interview did not get to that level of >detail. > >He doesn't comment at all on the use of powders in the interview, but >I'm pretty sure he includes powders under the heading " decoctions " , >since many formulae that are now given as a decoction were originally >written as powders. He says " all the good practitioners I've seen, >without exception, prescribe decoctions... " . He does not say what >else they do, or don't do. > >Rory >-- > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 9 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:49:11 -0000 > " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001 >Re: Sionneau on decoctions > >Sean, > >As Philippe's Blue Poppy editor, I have constantly had to tone down >his hortatory rhetoric. (AIN'T THAT IRONIC!) He's a very young man, >not to mention French. I agree, his phrasing was, at the very least, >impolitic. Give him time. IMO, his wine is not yet mature. Also, >please remember, he's writing in a foreign tongue. I doubt if he has >any idea how he actually sounds to Americans. > >Bob > > > > > Does no one else find this a bit offensive? Quite an elitist view, >and > > disappointing to see it published in a professional paper. Maybe he >should > > consider writing for Quackbusters. > > > > Sean Doherty > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 10 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:43:33 -0500 > " Marco " <bergh > " categories " > > Dear List, > >I am doing a general-introductory talk on Chinese medicine and in the >figure below I have tried to represent some aspects that are involved and >influence the " practice and what is? " Chinese medicine, it a small scale >attempt to avoid or minimise " Orientalism " in terms of simplification and >cultural biases, in effect actually accounting for how this might affect > " practice and what is? " Chinese medicine. I am wondering if I have left out >a obvious or non-obvious " category " and hence would appreciate comments. >This figure is also to represent that an introductory talk is just that; >and to dwell more adeptly one needs to sincerely consider these below >aspect and its relation between each others and Chinese medicine. > > > > Below is the talk in its preliminary stage, its in Spanish with >translated help from Someone named Anna Rebecca. All mistakes and >absurdities are of course my mistakes. > >And before Adios, > >To Elisabeth Hsu I would like to extend many thanks for sending the >polyglot practitioner it finally reached via London to Guatemala, the book >on Maya medicine and Chinese medicine will send a copy in due time (sorry >for any delays). > >Also if anyone by any chance happen to know University hospitals >TCM-acumoxa clinics in the west and there internet web site I would be very >appreciative of info, trying to " convince " the University of San Carlos >that " incorporating " some from of Chinese medicine is good for their >health:-) Either way it would be a start to professionalise the practice >and promote Chinese medicine on a more wide ranging scale. > >Also Rob thanks a lot for your e-mail... > > > >Marco Bergh > > > >Racional: > >Sensibilizar Concienciar A los estudiantes de Medicina Occidental que hay >otra formas de medicina practicada en varios partes del mundo incluyendo >aquí en Guatemala. > >Sumario: > >Esto pude crear un Medico/a formado en la Escuela de la Medicina >Universidad San Carlos mas abertio/a ala practica medica >multidisciplinaria; refuerce al dialogo que ya han comenzando en otro >países entre diferente paradigmas medicas. > >Introducción: > > MEDICINA CHINA > >Hablar de Medicina China es un tópico muy profundo, que abarca muchos >aspectos de la vida diaria, de la naturaleza, forma de ver el mundo y mas, >que interactúan entre si y particularmente. > > Objetivo General: > > Sensibilizar a estudiantes de Medicina Occidental de la Facultad de San >Carlos de Guatemala, en la existencia de otros tipos de medicina >practicados en varias partes del mundo, incluyendo por supuesto, la >medicina Maya, aquí en Guatemala. > > > > > HISTORIA: 2,000 años de práctica y evolución. > > GEOGRAFIA: influencia de enfermedades, manifestaciones de desequilibrio >en la salud. > > CULTURA: sistemas entre sistemas. > > EPISTEMOLOGÍA: influencia de varias doctrinas y dogmas. > > CIENCIA: parámetros en forma de principios, conocimientos, acción, >reacción comprobables. > > ARTE: la aplicación de las teorías e ideologías en el contexto de >pacientes como individuo-a. > > TEORIA: muy extensa y completa. Relacionada íntimamente con el cuerpo y >sus funciones (vistas como una red que interactúa conjuntamente) y el >cuerpo y el medio ambiente. > >IDEOLOGÍA: Varias ramas, varias teorías usadas según diferentes >ideologías. > >EDUCACIÓN: dirigida por el estado y educación adoptada paralela al estado. > >INSTITUTOS: relacionado con tiempo y mas. > >DOCTOR@S: como maestr@s para dar salud al paciente, no solo en la clínica >o en instituciones de salud, sino también fuera de los mismos. > >PRACTICA: estilos idiosincráticos, experimental. >PACIENTES: responsabilidades y obligaciones. > >TRATAMIENTO : diferente para cada persona, al tomar todos los aspectos que >involucran la práctica de la Medicina China. > >LINGÜÍSTICA: acercamiento del idioma como trasmisor de conocimientos, por >eso aspectos filológicos son muy importantes para entender para la >connotación y denotación de los términos de la Medicina China. > >CATEGORÍA DE SANADORES capacitación, habilidad, interés, practicantes >empíricos, familia, escolásticos . > >MODALIDAD DE TRATAMIENTOS : Meditación, dietoterapia, drogas naturales, >acumoxa, Qi Kung, Tai Chi Chuan, masoterapia y mas. > >Sumario: > >Potencialmente la Medicina China pude ayudar a Medic@so/a formad@s en la > Universidad de San Carlos a ser más abiert@s a la practica medica >multidisciplinaria; desarrollando el diálogo que ya ha comenzando en otro >países, entre diferente paradigmas médicos. > > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 11 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 10:51:02 -0500 > " Marco " <bergh > " Categories " > >I meant to thank Robert Heyden for his mail, but Rob for short ok? > > >[This message contained attachments] > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 12 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:27:00 -0000 > " James Ramholz " <jramholz >Re: Sionneau on decoctions > >, Rory Kerr <rorykerr@w...> wrote: > > He seems to be a serious student of the classics (I attended a > > weekend seminar on acupuncture with him a while back which was > > entirely sourced in the Han and pre-Han literature). He was >trained in China. > > >Rory: > >Judging from the few books of his I own, you have a more extensive >understanding of pulses. Did attending his seminar change the way >you work, or change your perspective on disorders and their >pathomechanisms? > > >Jim Ramholz > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 13 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:30:12 -0000 > " James Ramholz " <jramholz >Re: Sionneau on decoctions > >, " Bob Flaws " <pemachophel2001> > > As Philippe's Blue Poppy editor, I have constantly had to tone >down his hortatory rhetoric. (AIN'T THAT IRONIC!) He's a very young >man, not to mention French. I agree, his phrasing was, at the very >least, impolitic. Give him time. IMO, his wine is not yet mature. >Also, please remember, he's writing in a foreign tongue. I doubt if >he has any idea how he actually sounds to Americans. > > >Bob: > >Perhaps you shouldn't tone him down. His books are excellent for TCM. > > >Jim Ramholz > > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 14 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:47:42 +0100 > " " < >Re: Maqianzi-Strychnos Nux vomicae > >Hi Will, > >Many thanks for your useful feedback. > >Is either of the following books available on CD?: > >1. Jia Kun's: " Diagnosis and Treatment of Carcinoma in Chinese >Medicine > >2. " Pharmacopoeia of the People's Republic of China " > >Best wishes, >Phil > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >Will wrote: " As Z'ev stated, Jia Kun uses it in the formula ping xiao >dan. His book " Diagnosis and Treatment of Carcinoma in Chinese >Medicine " gives many treatment protocols with doses. He also used >it as a preventative. I have used it but gave up on it when Seven >Forests came out with a more medically-legal formula called chih-ko >and curcuma. > >Re: ma qian zi (sm strychni) .. arouses the spirit = excites CNS, >promotes blood circulation, and promotes breathing - I take it as the >result of increased oxygen supply in the brain. ... it would be an >arousal of spirit in the context of clouding of spirit by fever or >cancerous processes. > >...courses the channels = Frees Channels (in obstruction/Bi >Syndrome). The " Pharmacopoeia of the People's Republic of China " >lists the action as promoting the movement of qi and blood in the >collaterals. It is used for protracted arthritis, rheumatoid arthralgia, >numbness and paralysis (does this sound homeopathic?), sequellae >of poliomyelitis, and traumatic injuries. > >Re Maqianzi and cancer ... I lent my copy of " Diagnosis and >Treatment of Carcinoma in " . Tthis is the place to >look for protocols using this material for cancer. Hsu lists febrile >diseases, abdmonial masses, carbuncles and malignant furuncles. >He gives dosages at .6 to 1.2 g. The " Pharmacopoeia of the >People's Republic of China " lists .3 to .6 g...I feel safer with smaller >doses. Also, if there is a problem what do you say to the patients >family? Well......we gave her strychnine... Will > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >Best regards, > > >WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland >WWW : http://www.research.teagasc.ie/grange/search.htm >Email: < >Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] > >HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland >WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm >Email: < >Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] > > >______________________ >______________________ > >Message: 15 > Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:47:42 +0100 > " " < >Supply Houses for Indian (Vedic) Herbs > >Hi All, > > > We are working on steroidogenic activities of herbal medicines. > > We need some selected herbs from you that have been recognized as > > potent aphrodiciac or used in reproductive purpose. Tribulus is > > much cheaper here and we are working on it from samples that we > > bought here. I would like you to find such herbs with above > > mentioned property or mentioning. I would be interested in Ginkgo, > > Echinacia, Valerian, Goldenseal etc. Just send 100 gms dry sample > > of these and others if you think are better. > >While trying to source single herbs for one of Jen-Hsou Lin's >students [see note above], I dug up the following URLs from WWW. >They may be of interest > >Phil > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >I have found several Websites in INDIA for herbal ingredients. Herb >prices in India are probably the lowest in the world. See the list of >herbs (at the end) that can be got from India. Also, please see these > Indian sites: > >Vedic Life Sciences Products [>Vedic Life Sciences Products >[>500 Herbs] Email: vedic >http://www.ayuherbal.com/medplantcatalogue.htm# > >ARYA VASTU BHANDAR [iNDIA] - PURE HERBAL POWDERS >http://www.aryavastubhandar.com/pure_herble.html > >SUNJAY PHARMA offers and export a wide extensive range of >Medicinal Plants / Herbs, Herbal Extracts and Spices, but the >undermentioned are just a chosen few globally popular ones, at a >glance: http://www.sunjaypharma.com/seed.htm > >ABATRA TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD >http://www.abatra.com/product/Part_A/PA2/index.html > >Alchem International Standardised Herbal Extracts >http://www.alchemintl.com/stanex1.htm > >Dances with Herbs Price List [in US $] >http://www.herbanspice.com/danceswithherbs/pricelist.html > >R.N.Rajan & Co., No.1, Kumarappa Maistry Street, Chennai - 600 >001, India. Phone: 91-44-5231238, 5231240, 5223794 E-mail : >rn_rajan >http://www.rnrajan.com/products.htm and >http://www.rnrajan.com/products1.htm > >Shraddha Herbal Exports [india] >http://www.shraddhaherbal.com/product.htm > >HERBAL POWDER FOR FEMALE STERILITY [28 US$/kg] >http://www.shraddhaherbal.com/formulation1.htm Composition: >Asparagus racemosus (roots) 20%, Withania somnifera (roots) >20%, Glycyrrhiza glabra (roots) 20%, Phyllanthus emblica (fruits) >10%, Ficus glomerata (bark) 10%, Ficus religiosa (bark) 10%, >Lepidium sativum (seeds) 10%. Dosage: About 3 gms. powder >should be given to the patient twice daily, > >HERBAL POWDER FOR MALE STERILITY [27 US$/kg] >http://www.shraddhaherbal.com/formulation1.htm Composition: >Withania somnifera (roots) 15%, Mucuna pruriens (seeds) 25%, >Tribulus terrestris (fruits) 20%, Glycyrrhiza glabra (roots) 10%, >Terminalia arjuna (bark) 10%, Phyllanthus emblica (fruits) 10%, >Zinziber officinale (roots) 5%, Piper longum (fruits) 5%. Dosage >About 4 gms. powder is given to the patient, twice a day with milk or >honey. > >Sresan Pharmaceuticals [india] >http://www.webindia.com/sresan/prod.htm > >CRUDE HERBS http://www.baidyanath.com/products.htm We >select and use >500 herbs from South India to the Himalayas for >our production line after thorough testing by our expert botanists. >This ensures that genuine herbs are used for production. We can >also supply these herbs in their natural forms or in powder form. > >Supply House: >(1), in list below: Vedic Life Sciences >http://www.ayuherbal.com/medplantcatalogue.htm > >(2), in list below: aryavastubhandar > > >Abelmoschus esculantus (1); Abelmoschus moschatus (1); Abies >webbiana (1); Abroma augusta (1, 2); Abrus precatorius (1, 2); >Abutilan indicum (1); Acacia arabica (1); Acacia catechu (1); >Acacia concina (1, 2); Acacia leucophloea (1); Acacia pennata (1); > Acacia senegal (1); Acalypha indica (1); Achillea millefolium (1); >Achyranthes aspera (1, 2); Aconitum ferox (1); Aconitum >heterophyllum (1, 2); Aconitum palmatum (1); Acorus calamus (1, >2); Adhatoda vasica (1, 2); Adiantum capillus (1); Aegle marmelos >(1, 2); Aerva persica (1); Aesculus hippocastanum (1); Agave >americana (1); Ailanthus excelsa (1); Albizzia lebbeck (1, 2); >Aleurites moluccana (1); Alkanna tinctoria (2); Allamanda cathartica >(1); Allium cepa (1); Allium sativum (1, 2); Aloe indica (1); Aloe vera > barbenoids (1); Alpinia galanga/acalcarata (1, 2); Alstonia scholaris > (1, 2); Althaea officinalis (1, 2); Altingia exeelsa (1); Amaranthus >gangeticus (1); Amaranthus paniculatus (1); Amomum subulatum (1, > 2); Amoora rohitaka (1); Amorphophallus campanulatus (1); >Anacardium occidentale (1); Anacylus pyrethrum (2); Ananas sativa > (1); Andrographis paniculata (1, 2); Anethum sowa (1); Angelica >glauca (1); Anisochilus carnosus (1); Annona reticulata (1); Annona > squamosa (1); Anthemis nobilis (1); Apium graveolens (1, 2); >Aquilaria agallocha (1); Areca catechu (1); Argemone maxicana (1); > Argyreia speciosa sweet (1, 2); Argyreia speciosa sweet seed (2); >Aristolochia bracteolata (1); Aristolochia indica (1); Artemisa >siversiana (1); Artocarpus communis (1); Artocarpus heterophyllus >(1); Asclepias curassavica (1); Ashwagandadi churna (2); >Asparagus adscendens (1, 2); Asparagus racemosus (1, 2); >Asphaltum (1); Asteracantha longifolia (1); Astragalus gummifer (1); >Astvarg powder (2); Atropa belladonna (1); Avipatikar powder (2); >Azadirachta indica (1, 2); Bacopa monniera/ herpestis monniera (1, > 2); Balanites aegyptiaea (1); Baliospermum montanum (1); >Balsamodendron mukul (2); Bambusa arundinacea (1, 2); Barbados > aloe / aloe indica (purified) (2); Baringtonia acutangula (1); Basella > alba (1); Bassia latifolia (1); Bauhinia variegata (1, 2); Benincasa >hispida (1); Berberis aristata (1, 2); Bergenia ligulata (1); Bergera >koenigis (1); Bixa orellana (1); Blepharis edulis (1, 2); Boerhavia >diffusa (1, 2); Bombax malabaricum (1, 2); Borassus flabellifer (1); >Boswellia serrata (1); Brassica juncea (1, 2); Brassica nigra (1); >Brassica oleracea (1); Bryophyllum pinnatum (1); Buchanania >lanzan (1); Buchanania latifolia (1); Butea frondosa (1); Butea >monosperma/bfrondosa (1, 2); Cadaba Indica (1); Caesalpinia >bonduc (1); Caesalpinia crista (1); Caesalpinia digyna (1); >Caesalpinia pulcherrima (1); Caesalpinia sappan (1, 2); Caeslpinia >crista (1); Calendula officinalis (1); Calotropis gigantea (1); >Calotropis procera (1); Capparis aphylla (1); Capparis decidua (1); >Capsicum annum (1); Capsicum minimum (1); Cardiospermum >halicacabum (1); Carica papaya (1); Carthamus tinctorius (1); >Carum carvi (1); Carum copticum (2); Caryophyllus aromaticus (1, >2); Casearia esculenta (2); Cassia absus (1); Cassia alata (1); >Cassia angustifolia (1, 2); Cassia auriculata (1); Cassia fistula (1); >Cassia obvata (1); Cassia occidentalis (1); Cassia tora (1); >Catharanthus roseus (1); Cedrus deodara/c libani (1, 2); Celastrus >paniculata (1); Cenopodium album (1); Centaurea behen (2); >Centella asiatica/hydrocoty asiatica (1, 2); Centratherum >anthelminticum (2); Cephaelis ipecacuanha (1); Cephalandra indica > (1); Ceratonia siliqua (1); Ceropegia bulbosa (1); Chrysanthemum >cinerariaefolium (1); Chrysanthemum indicum (1); Cicer arietinum >(1); Cichorium intybus (1, 2); Cichorum endivia (1); Cinchona >officinalis (1); Cinnamomum cassia (2); Cinnamomum glanduliferum > (1); Cinnamomum tamala (1, 2); Cinnamomum zeylanicum (1, 2); >Cissampelos pareira (1); Cissus quandrangularis (1); Citrullus >colocynthis (1, 2); Citrullus lanatus (1); Citrullus vulgaris (1); Citrus >aurantifolia (1); Citrus limonum (1); Citrus medica (1); Citrus >reticulata (1); Citrus reticulata peel (2); Citrus sinensis (1); Cleome >gynandra (1); Clerodendron indicum (1); Clerodendron serratum >(1, 2); Clerodendrum multiflorm (1); Clitorea ternatea (1, 2); >Coccinia cordifolia (1); Cocculus hirsutus (1); Cochlospermum >gossypium (1); Colchicum luteum (2); Coleus aromaticus (2); >Coleus barbatus (1); Coleus forskholi (1); Commiphora molmol (1); >Commiphora mukul (1); Commiphora myrrha (1); Convolvulus >arvensis (1); Convolvulus pluricaulis (1, 2); Copaifera spp. (1); >Coptis teeta (1); Cordia myxa (1, 2); Coriandrum sativum (1, 2); >Costus speciosus (1); Crataeva nurvala (1, 2); Crataeva religiosa >(1); Crategus oxyacanthoides (1); Cressa cretica (1, 2); Crinum >latifolium (1); Crocus sativus (1); Crossandra infunduliformis (1); >Crotalaria verrucosa (1); Croton oblongifolius (1); Croton tiglium >(1); Cryptolepis buchanania (1, 2); Cucumis sativus (2); Cucurbita >pepo (1); Cuminum cyminum (1, 2); Curculigo orchioides (1, 2); >Curcuma amda (1); Curcuma aromatica (1, 2); Curcuma longa (1, >2); Curcuma zedoaria (1); Cuscuta reflexa (1); Cyamopsis >psoralioides (1); Cymbopogon citratus (1); Cymbopogon >schoenanthus (1); Cymopsis tetragonoloba (1); Cynara scolymus >(1); Cynodon dactylon (1); Cyperus rotundus (1); Cyperus >scariosus (1, 2); Dalbergia latifolia (1); Dalbergia sisoo (1); >Dashang lape (2); Datura metel (1); Datura stramonium (1); Daucus > carota (1, 2); Delphinium zalil (2); Dendrobium macrael (1); >Desmodium gangeticum (1); Desmostachya bipinnata (1); Dichroa >febrifuga (1); Dicoma tomentosa (1); Didymocarpus pedicellata (2); >Digitalis purpurea (1); Dioscorea bulbifera (1); Dolichos biflorus >(1, 2); Dorema ammoniacum (1); Dregia volubilis (2); Eclipta alba >husk (2); Elettaria cardamomum (2); Embelia ribes (2); Emblica >officinalis (2); Ephedra gerardiana/enerbodensis (2); Eugenia >jambolana (2); Eulophia campestris (2); Evolvulus alsinoides (2); >Fagonia arabica (2); Fagonia cretica (1); Feronia elephantum (1); >Feronia limonia (1); Feronia limonida (1); Ferula foetida (1); Ferula >sumbul (1); Ficus bengalensis (1, 2); Ficus elastica (1); Ficus >glomerata (1, 2); Ficus racemosa (1); Ficus religiosa (1, 2); >Foeniculum vulgare (1, 2); Foeniculum vulgare root (2); Fumaria >indica (1, 2); Fumaria officinalis (1); Fumaria vaillantii (1); Garcinia >cambogia (1); Garcinia indica (1); Gardenia gummifera (1); >Garuga pinnata (1); Gaultheria fragrantissima (1); Geru purified >(2); Gloriosa superba (1); Glycyrrhiza glabra (1, 2); Glyece max >(1); Gmeliana arborea (1); Gossypium herbaceum (1); Gossypium >indicum (1); Grewia tenax (1); Gymnema sylvestre (1, 2); Hamelia >patens (1); Hedychium spicatum (1); Helianthus annuus (1); >Helicteres isora (1); Hemidesmus indicus (1, 2); Hibiscus >abelmoschus (1); Hibiscus rosasinensis (1); Hibiscus sabdariffa >(1); Hingul purified (2); Hingvastak powder (2); Holarrhena >antidysenterica (1, 2); Holoptelia integrifolia (1); Hordeum vulgare >(1); Hydnocarpus laurifolia (1); Hygrophila auriculata (1); >Hygrophila spinosa (2); Hyoscyamus niger (1); Hypericum >perforatum (1); Hyssopus officinalis (1); Icnocarpus frutescens (1); >Illicium verum (1); Imli beej (2); Indigofera tinctoria (1); Inula >racemosa (1, 2); Ipomaea sepiaria (1); Ipomoea aquatica (1); >Ipomoea batatas (1); Ipomoea digitata (1); Ipomoea hederacea (1); >Ipomoea turpethum (1, 2); Iris florentina (1); Iris germanica (2); >Jasminum grandiflorum (1); Jasminum sambac (1); Jatropha >curcus (1); Juglans regia (1); Juniperus communis (1); Justicia >gendarussa (1, 2); Justicia picta (1); Kaempferia galanga (1); >Kajjalli (2); Lactuca scariola (1); Lantana camara (1); Launaea >pinnatifida (1); Laurus nobillis (1); Lavan bhaskar (2); Lawsonia >alba (1); Lepidium sativum (1); Leptadenia reticulata (1); Leucas >aspera (1); Leucas cephalotes (1); Linum usitatissimum (1); Litsea >chinensis (1); Lobelia nicotianaefolia (1); Luffa acutangula (1); >Lycopodium clavatum (1); Madhuca indica (1); Mahasudarshan >churan vati (2); Majorana hortensis (1); Mallotus phillippinensis (1, >2); Malva ratundifolia (1); Malva sylvestris (1); Mangifera indica >(pulp) (2); Mangifera indica seed (2); Marrubium vulgare (1); >Matricaria chamomilla (1); Medicago sativa (1); Melia azadirachta >(1); Melilotus officinalis (1); Melissa officinalis (1); Mentha arvensis >(1); Mentha piperita (1); Mentha sativa (2); Mentha spicata (1); >Mesua ferrea (1, 2); Mimosa pudica (1); Mimusops elengi (2); >Mirabilis jalapa (1); Momordica charantia (1, 2); Morinda citrifolia >(1); Moringa oleifera (1); Morus alba (1); Mucuna pruriens (1, 2); >Murraya koenigii (1, 2); Musa paradisiaca (1); Musa sapientum >(1); Myrica nagi (1, 2); Myristica fragrans (1, 2); Myristica >malabarica (1); Myrtus caryophyllus (1); Nardostachys jatamansi >(2); Nasturtium officinale (1); Navshader purified (2); Nelumbium >speciosum (2); Nelumbo nucifera (1); Nerium indicum (1); Nerium >odorum (1); Nicotiana tabacum (1); Nigella sativa (1); Nigellasativa >(2); Nordotachyns jatammansi (1); Nyctanthes arbortristis (1); >Nymphae rubra (1); Ocimum album (1); Ocimum basilicum (1); >Ocimum gratissimum (1); Ocimum sanctum (1, 2); Onosma >bracteatum (2); Onosma echiodes (1); Operculina turpethum (1); >Opniorrhiza mungaos (1); Origanum majorana (1); Oroxylum >indicum (1); Orthosiphon grandiflorus (1); Orthosiphon stamineus >(1); Oxalis corniculata (1); Paederia foetidia (1); Paeonia >officinalis (1); Palash chhal (bark) (2); Panch sakar powder (2); >Pandanus odoratissimus (1); Papaver rhoeas (1); Papaver >somniferum (1); Parmelia lichin (1); Passiflora incarnata (1); >Pedalium murex (1, 2); Peganum harmala (1); Pelargonium >graveolens (1); Pentatropis capensis (1); Pergularia extensa (1); >Petroselinum crispum (1); Peucedanum graveolens (2); Phaseolus >trilobus (1); Phragmites karka (1); Phyllanthus niruri (1, 2); >Picrorrhiza kurrooa (2); Pimpinella anisum (1); Pinus longifolia (1); >Piper betle (1); Piper chaba (1); Piper cubeba (1, 2); Piper longum >(1, 2); Piper longum roots (2); Piper nigrum (1, 2); Piper >officinarum/aperchaba (2); Pistacia integerrima (1, 2); Pistacia >lentiscus (1, 2); Plantago ovata (1); Pluchea lanceolata (1); >Plumaria alba (1); Plumbago zeylanica (1, 2); Polianthes tuberosa >(1); Polygala chinensis (1); Polygonum aviculare (1); Pongamia >glabra (1); Pongamia pinneta (1); Portulaca oleracea (1); Portulaca >tuberosa (1); Potassii nitras (2); Premna integrifolia (1); Premna >latifolia (1); Premna serratifolia (1); Prosopis cineraria (1); >Prosopis spicigera (1); Prunus amygdalus (1); Prunus armeniaca >(1); Prunus cerasus (1); Prunus mahaleb (1); Prunus puddum (2); >Psidium guajava (1); Psoralea corylifolia (1, 2); Pterocarpus >marsupium (1, 2); Pterocarpus santalinus (2); Pueraria tuberosa >(1, 2); Punica granatum (1, 2); Putranjiva roxburghi (1); Pyrus >cydonia (1); Quercus infectoria (2); Randia dumetorum (1); Randia >spinosa (1); Raphamus sativus (1); Rauwolfia serpentina (1, 2); >Reh salt (2); Rhamnus purshiana (1); Rheum emodi (2); Rheum >officinalis (1); Rhus succedanea (1); Ribes nigrum (1); Ricinus >communis (1, 2); Rosa centifolia (1, 2); Rosa damascena (1, 2); >Rosmarinus officinalis (1); Rourea santaloides (1); Rubia cordifolia >(1, 2); Rumex crispus (1); Saccharum officnarum (1); Salab panja >(2); Salix tetrasperma (1); Salmalia malabarica (1); Salvadora >persica (1); Salvia haematodes (2); Salvia officinalis (1); Sambhar >salt (2); Santalum album (1, 2); Sapindus mokorossi (2); Sapindus >trifoliatus (1); Saraca asoca (1); Saraca indica (1, 2); >Sarcostemma brevistigma (1); Saussurea lappa (1, 2); Saxifraga >ligulata (1); Schrebera swietenioides (1); Scindapsus officinalis (1, >2); Semecarpus anacardium (1); Sesamum indicum (1); Sesbania >grandiflora (1); Sesbanitia sesban (1); Shorea robusta (1); Sida >cordifolia (1, 2); Sinapis juncea (1); Sisymbrium irio (1); Sitopaladi >powder (2); Smilax china (1, 2); Smilax ornata (2); Sodi chloridum >(2); Solanum dulcamara (1); Solanum nigrum (1, 2); Solanum >xanthocarpum (1, 2); Sphaeranthus hirtus (1); Sphaeranthus indicus > (1, 2); Spilanthes oleracea (1); Sterculia urens (1); >Stereospermum suaveolens (1); Strychnos nux vomica (1, 2); >Strychnos potatorum (1); Styrax benzoin (1); Sulphur (purified) >(2); Swertia chirata (2); Symplocos racemosus (1, 2); Syzygium >aromaticum (1); Tagetes erecta (1); Tamarindus indica (1, 2); >Tamarix gallica (1); Taraxacum officinale (1); Taxus baccata (1, 2); >Tecoma undulata (1); Tecomella undulata (1, 2); Tectona grandis >(1); Tephrosea purpurea (1, 2); Teramnus losasalis (1); Terminalia >arjuna (1); Terminalia belerica (1, 2); Terminalia chebula (1, 2); >Terminalia citrina (2); Terminalia reticula (2); Terminella arjuna (2); >Thevetia nevifolia (1); Thymus serphllum (1); Thymus vulgaris (1); >Tinospora cordifolia (1, 2); Tinospora sinensis (1); Trachyspermum >ammi (1); Trapa bispinosa (2); Trianthema portulacastrum (1); >Tribulus terrestris (1, 2); Tricholepis glaberrinum (1); Trichosanthes >anguina (1); Trichosanthes dioica (2); Trifala (2); Trigonella foenum >graeceum (1, 2); Tri-kut (piper longum, piper nigrum & zingiber) >(2); Triticum sativum (1); Tylophora asthmatica (1); Uncaria >gambier (1); Uraria picta (1); Urginea indica (1); Urginea maritima >(1); Urtica dioica (1); Valeriana wallichi (1, 2); Vanda roxburghi (1); >Vangueria spinosa (1); Verbascum thapsus (1); Vernonia cinerea >(1); Vetivera zizanioides (1); Viburnum prunifolium (1); Vinca rosea > (1); Viola biflora (1); Viola odorata (1, 2); Viola tricolor (1); >Viscum album (1); Vit lavana (2); Vitex negundo (1); Vitis vinifera >(1); Wedelia calendulacea (1); Withania somnifera (1, 2); >Woodfordia floribunda (2); Woodfordia fruticosa (1); Wrightia >tinctoria (1); Xanthium strumarium (1); Zanthoxylum aromaticum >(1); Zanthoxylum alatum (2); Zingiber officinale (1, 2); Ziziphus >jujuba (1); Ziziphus nummularia (1) > > >Best regards, > > >WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland >WWW : http://www.research.teagasc.ie/grange/search.htm >Email: < >Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] > >HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland >WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm >Email: < >Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] > > >______________________ >______________________ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2002 Report Share Posted September 18, 2002 , " David Frierman " < davidfrierman@h...> wrote: > I do not believe the statement attributed to Sionneau is actually his. David Yes it was. The columnist who interviewed Sionneau is a student at PCOM. And for the record, the dean of PCOM is not an L.Ac. and has no position on this subject as far as I know. I believe the chair of the clinical studies department, Bob Damone was interviewed several months ago by the same columnist. But I do not think Bob made these statements either. In any event, all acupuncture today articles are on their website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2002 Report Share Posted September 27, 2002 Mark, wrote: > (or any) > > A couple of questions on sionneau. (I am woefully out of touch) I know the feeling. > > a.. Does the extra-large volume cover all that is in the seven small volumes? > b.. Are these books related exclusively to herbology, or inclusive of other modalities? I have recently acquired volume 3 which deals with issues relating to the mouth, lips, tongue, teeth & gums. The text does include acupuncture protocols mainly based on a tcm acupuncture formulas i.e. Ki 7 " engenders liquids to quench thirst " . The acupuncture points are from an acupuncturist friend who, according to Sionneau, had the " deepest influence on my comprehension of " . In light of his comments on Acupuncture Today, I find this statement interesting. > c.. Are they really indispensible? Well, it seems that unless you have access to the literature in Chinese, translations seem to be second best. For me, I have found the book informative and have learned a great deal on a subject barely covered during my training. I plan to order the remaining volumes. > Here is another question for the more established practioners out there, if they would oblige.............. > > I have been practicing acupuncture pain care in a very western > environment for a few years. (Very little room for herbology with > MDs and their meds.) It pays the bills, but has become very spirit > numbing. Been there, done that, will not do it again! Although I earned a good buck in that environment, my growth as a CM practitioner suffered. I quit last week and am looking at a $40,000 office lease that puckers the sphincters. Anyhoo, the question is.....if anyone is willing to share.......Does anyone have any great (or obvious) ideas for marketing a new practice in the following areas?; > a.. Fertility > b.. Addictions > c.. Stroke care > d.. Stress reduction > No Ideas too silly (brainstorm method) I also quit and chased a mirage down in Asheville, NC. That's when my practice changed. I had the opportunity to work with another practitioner who was doing mostly herbal medicine and his example got me back to thinking in lines of herbal prescriptions. Today, my practice is around 80% herbal medicine, qi gong, and acupuncture with few needles per treatment. As far as ideas, I think that there's a demographic that is able to afford our services and who prefer a down to earth approach to holistic medicine. The biggest mistake I made early on in my practice was that I believed a lie: Western patients will not take the herbs. Thus, early on I concentrated on patents. Although I have no regrets, I'm happy for my experience in Asheville. I think that a $40.000 rent should be reconsidered. Unless one has a financial support system in place and can budget for such amount, it's better to think twice and rent once. Also, although I think that marketing on specific areas such as addiction, stroke care etc., can generate patients, IMV, opening your doors and allowing the powers that be, to send those you can help is the best strategy. > > I apologize if this is not in the scope of this chat-thing, but any student in this group might find this info useful > > Mark C. > ps. Touche to Fernando with the Rumi quote Thanks, Regards, Fernando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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