supervising

[Guest guest]

>

> <

> modeling

>

> In the teaching clinic, one of the responsibilities of the supervisor is

> to model for the students.

 

A really good teacher told me that a teacher should be the librarian to show the

students the right books, not all the encyclopedias in the world. Students who

think otherwise will be disappointed.

 

One story I've told in class about herbs: There was an herb company (Lotus?)

that sent out some publicity materials and there was a really nice picture of an

older Chinese doctor in the herb room. I put it on the wall of my herb room.

Wooden desk, wispy beard, writing a formula

with a brush pen, he looked really cool. I hope to be so good looking at that

age. Anyway one day, I looked at it and I realized that on the desk, open, was a

formula book. So even the masters use them.

 

I think in the clinic, our first responsibility is to the patient. I've always

felt uncomfortable giving my students a long leash in writiing their formulas.

They can't read my mind and in most cases I want to have that patient take these

herbs. Sometimes I will lead a student to

exactly what I want... in other words give clues that end up exactly where I

would have gone anyway. (Of course sometimes experienced students do come up

with good stuff on their own, but I'm not worried about them.) It becomes

discouraging to let a student write a formula and

then basically say, no, you are wrong. Better to just talk out loud as to your

own thought process.

 

> But I used to watch some of my virtuoso supervisors whip

> out these novel formulae that worked magic on their patients and I thought,

> " I want to do that! " .

 

My own inspiration was my first herbal doctor in Chinatown NYC who while

writing, used to pause for a long time, look up and to the left, stare off into

space and then finally start writing again. I thought, " What the heck was he

thinking? "

 

doug

[Guest guest]

, douglas wrote:

 

>

> I think in the clinic, our first responsibility is to the patient. I've

always felt uncomfortable giving my students a long leash in

writiing their formulas. They can't read my mind and in most

cases I want to have that patient take these herbs.

 

I don't let students give the wrong formula. In western medicine

grand rounds, the student may be asked what drug or procedure

is right for a patient. If the student is wrong, we won't kill the

patient for educational value

 

Sometimes I will lead a student to

> exactly what I want... in other words give clues that end up

exactly where I would have gone anyway.

 

yes, that is one approach

 

It becomes discouraging to let a student write a formula and

> then basically say, no, you are wrong. Better to just talk out

loud as to your own thought process.

 

with all due respect, I completely disagree with this position. It is

much better to let a student try and fail than just to demonstrate

over and over again without letting them try. that would be like

saying that it is reasonable for students to just watch the

process of acupuncture during their internship. Putting students

on the spot is a time honored process in both east and west for

millennia. While it may cause some discomfort for both

students and professors, we need to get over it. One of my

colleagues calls on students at random in class. At first the

students hated it, but now they never fall behind on their reading

and the class has moved to higher level. Demonstration is for

the early stages of clinic. By internship, students must be

making their own choices or they will never learn to be anything

but parrots with a small vocabulary. I expect my interns to be

able to have a professional level discussion with me and with

some satisfaction, I can say that the current group more than

meets my expectations in this regard. a colleague said perhaps

only the best students will work with me and my view is skewed.

but I have also been here for three years and see a marked

improvement in formula writing over that time that is completely

coincident with changes in the program to achieve this goal.

while I may be baised, I think the survey sample is now large

enough for me to identify a positive trend.

 

[Guest guest]

with all due respect, I completely disagree with this position. It is much better to let a student try and fail than just to demonstrate over and over again without letting them try.

>>>I totally agree. That is what I did in China. I would write a formula and then get feedback. I learned more doing that then years of observation and discussion

Alon

[Guest guest]

Sure there is back and forth but I was just addressing Todd's question. I don't

know if I'm at the most advanced stage of herbal

practice but that's what I shoot for and I'd like to think indeed this is a

better model. Consider the alternative. The way I

learned was to watch doctors write formula after formula. That's kind of a time

honored tradition too.

doug

 

 

 

Now it is my observation that most

very experienced herbalists typically

craft novel formulae much of the

time. I have begun to wonder if this

approach is the best clinical

modeling at every stage of clinical training.

Many

students have difficulty making the

leap from selecting patents to

prescribing formulae. I don't think

this is process is well served by

only modeling the most advanced

stage of herbal practice.

 

 

 

 

, " Alon Marcus " <alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> with all due respect, I completely disagree with this position. It is

> much better to let a student try and fail than just to demonstrate

> over and over again without letting them try.

> >>>I totally agree. That is what I did in China. I would write a formula and

then get feedback. I learned more doing that then years of observation and

discussion

> Alon