Guest guest Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 > > Western med says this not pathological if no disease is found, > but that just doesn't sound right to me. something must be > wrong, like some heat in the lower jiao. I believe > treated a case like this successfully under my supervison a few > months ago. Are you out there, Jason? I think it was heat and > blood stasis, probably due to liver qi depression. > TOdd, I am here, and yes the final DX was heat due to lv qi depression, with only a minor element of blood stasis and I think an underlying xu of some sort (less clear - see below). THe original DX was Blood stasis, and the original Rx caused more bleeding, although he took about 5+ times the recommended dose (powdered). (LAter he tried the normal dose and the bleeding was not helped) (Note: at this point I was told by the p. that he only had hematuria) THis case is interesting for a couple of reasons. 1st there were no heat signs! And as we know bleeding can only be caused by xu, heat, or stasis. I still struggle with the following idea, but I believe that one can have such a depressed state of qi (which in this case there was SEVERE lv qi yu jie) that no obvious heat signs are present. I concluded that the bleeding, due to the color of the blood and amount, pulse, all lack of other possibilities, that there has to be HEAT. 2nd THERE were signs of blood stasis (tongue + I think choppy pulse??, and others). And 3rd - There was also no apparent signs of xu, yet the problem was 5+ years. BTW the blood was in the urine and semen. Which is a problem, even for western medicine... ANd after the switch in RX the blood was completely eliminated from the urine, and GREATLY reduced from the ejaculate (this took about 2-4 weeks)... I have moved and did not follow up... With such a long term problem it is hard to say what was actually going on, and to complicate things his communication skills were quite poor AND the granular herb pharmacy we were using had a very lame choice in herbs. - p.s. - Todd if you like I can give you his name and you could pull his chart and double check my recollection of the past, and see if there was any further progress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 , " " wrote: I still struggle with the following idea, but I > believe that one can have such a depressed state of qi (which in this > case there was SEVERE lv qi yu jie) that no obvious heat signs are > present. not even the tongue? I concluded that the bleeding, due to the color of the blood > and amount, pulse, all lack of other possibilities, that there has to > be HEAT. As sherlock Homes always said, after one has ruled out everything else, the only choice left must be the solution, no matter how unlikely it might seem. I wonder if this applies to TCM. 2nd THERE were signs of blood stasis (tongue + I think > choppy pulse??, and others). could the signs only show blood stasis even if it had transformed to heat? While treating blood stasis did not correct the condition without also using blood cooling, stop bleeding herbs, do you think it remained an essential part of the treatment. > granular herb pharmacy we were using had a very lame choice in > herbs. do you mean the selection of stop bleeding herbs that was available? BTW, I heard you got 8 inches of snow. Have fun. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 > Sat, 02 Nov 2002 16:29:36 -0000 > " " < .... > > As sherlock Homes always said, after one has ruled out > everything else, the only choice left must be the solution, no > matter how unlikely it might seem. I wonder if this applies to > TCM. One of the sayings one of my Chinese supervisors taught me was: " If the East isn't bright, head West " Close enough, I presume, Dr. Watson? I'll have to gather all those little sayings together one day.. They were great. Along with the ones like: You don't make a fat man in a day, Xin Bu Zai Yan (Heart (shen) not in the eyes -ie, light's on, nobody's home), before 30, you cheat disease, after 30, disease cheats you, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 Alon, if your question was directed to me (I originally brought up the bloody semen case), yes the blood is visible. Sometimes it is "wispy brownish" but other times the semen is full of blood. Julie >>>>Is this visible blood or on strip only? Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 , " Geoffrey Hudson " <list@a...> wrote: before 30, you cheat disease, after 30, disease cheats > you, etc.. I use that one a lot with younger patients (and students) with terrible lifestyles. todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 Western med says this not pathological if no disease is found, > but that just doesn't sound right to me. something must be > wrong, like some heat in the lower jiao. >>>>Is this visible blood or on strip only? Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 -- In , " " <@i...> wrote: > , " " > wrote: > > I still struggle with the following idea, but I > > believe that one can have such a depressed state of qi (which > in this > > case there was SEVERE lv qi yu jie) that no obvious heat signs > are > > present. > > not even the tongue? Correct... > > I concluded that the bleeding, due to the color of the blood > > and amount, pulse, all lack of other possibilities, that there has > to > > be HEAT. > > As sherlock Homes always said, after one has ruled out > everything else, the only choice left must be the solution, no > matter how unlikely it might seem. I wonder if this applies to > TCM. > Maybe, I think it worked here... > 2nd THERE were signs of blood stasis (tongue + I think > > choppy pulse??, and others). > > > could the signs only show blood stasis even if it had > transformed to heat? ?? While treating blood stasis did not correct > the condition without also using blood cooling, stop bleeding > herbs, do you think it remained an essential part of the > treatment. hhhmmm. It is so hard to say because he took the wrong dose (initially) and starting bleeding much more.... But I do still believe there was blood stasis that HAD to be addressed, just not as severely as first theorized. > > > granular herb pharmacy we were using had a very lame choice > in > > herbs. > > do you mean the selection of stop bleeding herbs that was > available? YES... > > BTW, I heard you got 8 inches of snow. Don't remind me... & #61514; and it is coming down again as I type.. HAven't fully adjusted yet..., but I should be acclimated very shortly... -JAson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Alon, if your question was directed to me (I originally brought up the bloody semen case), yes the blood is visible. Sometimes it is "wispy brownish" but other times the semen is full of blood >>>Is the patient an athlete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Sometimes it is "wispy brownish" but other times the semen is full of blood >>>Is the patient an athlete? No, the patient is an automotive worker. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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