Guest guest Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 The article goes on to say that "menopause is viewed not as time of ending and emptiness, but .. as a[n] opportunity to heal, grow stronger and fulfil her life's mission." AND: but we need to be careful about over-romanticizing what we do. that might score points at lectures geared for the public, but it does not gain us any credibility with mainstream decisionmakers. Julie responds: I agree. The statement quoted above just sounds like psychobabble. Women want relief from symptoms, period. Chinese herbs make the normal hormonal transition easier to bear and more comfortable. - cha Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:27 PM really The front page of the TCM World newspaper says in an article on HRT, "TCM has no word for menopause, calling it instead menstrual cycle ending symptoms"while this may be an accurate literal translation of the term used in china since antiquity, is it really different from menopause?menopause is defined in my oxford english dictionary as being derived from the greek, meaning cessation of the mensessince when we discuss such patients, we refer to the term menopausal (or now the more accurate perimenopausal) symptoms, we can add the word symptom to menopausechange the word order and we have:1) menses cessation symptoms2) menstrual cycle ending symptomshmmm. now it really seems that this is virtually an identical concept cross culturally. whether it has been medicalized rather than ritualized is a separate issue, IMO.The article goes on to say that "menopause is viewed not as time of ending and emptiness, but .. as a[n] opportunity to heal, grow stronger and fulfil her life's mission." Perhaps someone with more familiarity than myself could comment whether this indeed is the prevailing view of menopause in chinese culture. It is certainly the prevailing view of those involved in alternative therapies. From an evolutionary point of view, it also makes sense.But what I do know is that the standard therapies used in addressing perimenopausal symptoms are herbs. these herbs are considered medicines. some, such as zi he che actually contain hormones. others, like yin yang huo, impact hormone level via a variety of mechanisms (changing receptor activity, globulin binding, metabolism, etc.). while our use of medicines is at its best, noniatrogenic, it is still medicine. And the results of treatment in relieving symptoms by altering hormone levels is in fact very similar cross culturally. We can do this without causing cancer and that is a wonderful thing, but we need to be careful about over-romanticizing what we do. that might score points at lectures geared for the public, but it does not gain us any credibility with mainstream decisionmakers. The concepts of TCM can indeed be used to empower women who are going through menopause with having to diss western culture. While western medicine leaves a lot to be desired, western science is quite holistic and it never ceases to amaze me how often science supports what we do in TCM and CAM more than it supports the medicine supposedly derived from it.Chinese Herbshttp://www..orgvoice: fax: "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds" -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 The front page of the TCM World newspaper says in an article on HRT, " TCM has no word for menopause, calling it instead menstrual cycle ending symptoms " while this may be an accurate literal translation of the term used in china since antiquity, is it really different from menopause? menopause is defined in my oxford english dictionary as being derived from the greek, meaning cessation of the menses since when we discuss such patients, we refer to the term menopausal (or now the more accurate perimenopausal) symptoms, we can add the word symptom to menopause change the word order and we have: 1) menses cessation symptoms 2) menstrual cycle ending symptoms hmmm. now it really seems that this is virtually an identical concept cross culturally. whether it has been medicalized rather than ritualized is a separate issue, IMO. The article goes on to say that " menopause is viewed not as time of ending and emptiness, but .. as a[n] opportunity to heal, grow stronger and fulfil her life's mission. " Perhaps someone with more familiarity than myself could comment whether this indeed is the prevailing view of menopause in chinese culture. It is certainly the prevailing view of those involved in alternative therapies. From an evolutionary point of view, it also makes sense. But what I do know is that the standard therapies used in addressing perimenopausal symptoms are herbs. these herbs are considered medicines. some, such as zi he che actually contain hormones. others, like yin yang huo, impact hormone level via a variety of mechanisms (changing receptor activity, globulin binding, metabolism, etc.). while our use of medicines is at its best, noniatrogenic, it is still medicine. And the results of treatment in relieving symptoms by altering hormone levels is in fact very similar cross culturally. We can do this without causing cancer and that is a wonderful thing, but we need to be careful about over-romanticizing what we do. that might score points at lectures geared for the public, but it does not gain us any credibility with mainstream decisionmakers. The concepts of TCM can indeed be used to empower women who are going through menopause with having to diss western culture. While western medicine leaves a lot to be desired, western science is quite holistic and it never ceases to amaze me how often science supports what we do in TCM and CAM more than it supports the medicine supposedly derived from it. Chinese Herbs " Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2002 Report Share Posted November 2, 2002 Todd Taught: While western medicine leaves a lot to be desired, western science is quite holistic and it never ceases to amaze me how often science supports what we do in TCM and CAM more than it supports the medicine supposedly derived from it. Al Asks: can you tell me what you mean by " holistic " and how western science is much that way? Also, what do you see in science that supports what we do in TCM and CAM? Thanks. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 , Julie Chambers <info@j...> wrote: > I agree. The statement quoted above just sounds like psychobabble. Women want relief from symptoms, period. Chinese herbs make the normal hormonal transition easier to bear and more comfortable. > I will qualify my statement by adding that a small % of women have an interest in the transition to cronehood. But Julie is right that the majority of our patients have no interest in anything but symptom relief and getting on with their life. Nothing we can do will change that, even if we wanted to and we need to avoid anything that smacks of new age evangelism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > > Al Asks: > > can you tell me what you mean by " holistic " and how western > science is much that way? I will answer briefly. Western biology has always recognized the human body as a whole integrated system that maintains health through homeostasis. This is apparent in writing about the philosophy of biology for more than a century (see Huxley, Needham). Ken Wilber elaborates this point in great detail in sex, ecology and spirituality. Western medicine has fragmented this holistic view of the body, but no biologist believes that any body phenomena can be reduced to a single biochemical. W. Medicine attempts to make this true, but it rarely works. > > Also, what do you see in science that supports what we do in TCM and CAM? that science has always supported that the body depends on good nutrition and digestion and excretion. these are the basic laws of of all biological organisms. in the 80's, it became very clear to me that western medicine ignored their own science. Now we even have data confirming bodymind interactions. Stress research shows the impact of climatic factors on immunity. Internal, external and misc. causes of disease. Western science recognizes them. western med is just catching up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Also, what do you see in science that supports what we do in TCM and CAM?>>>The list would be too long for here. alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 While 'psychobabble' is hardly a substitute for good medicine, I guess it depends on the patient, as to what they want. One can give verbal encouragement to people to help them through difficult transitions in life and have it be inspiring. A high percentage of my patients want more than what they usually get from regular medicine, i.e. relief from symptoms. Most of them want to be at a better overall level of health. On Sunday, November 3, 2002, at 08:27 AM, wrote: > , Julie Chambers <info@j...> wrote: > >> I agree. The statement quoted above just sounds like psychobabble. > Women want relief from symptoms, period. Chinese herbs make the normal > hormonal transition easier to bear and more comfortable. >> > > > I will qualify my statement by adding that a small % of women have an > interest > in the transition to cronehood. But Julie is right that the majority > of our > patients have no interest in anything but symptom relief and getting > on with > their life. Nothing we can do will change that, even if we wanted to > and we > need to avoid anything that smacks of new age evangelism. > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Z'ev said: A high percentage of my patients want > more than what they usually get from regular medicine, i.e. relief from > symptoms. Most of them want to be at a better overall level of health. > Julie says: Z'ev, I agree, of course. But that doesn't mean they want to hear that menopause is " empowering " (or some such statement) when they experience menopause as being debilitating (maybe too strong a word). It boils down to helping patients with what they want help with... not giving them canned platitudes (I refer again back to the statement that Todd originally quoted from the World Acupuncture publication). Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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