herb restrictions

[Guest guest]

The UK apparently has quite a few herb restrictions written into law.

Most are sensible ones surrounding the issue of aristolochic acid. As Ted

Kapchuk lectured at PCOM, this issue is off the table with MD's and

regulators. These herbs are also restricted in the US with the exception

that one can prove that one has identified the correct species and tested

for AA. Thus, in the US, only guang fang ji is typically unavailable for

internal use. We actually had more of a problem finding uncontaimnated

ren shen for almost a year. I don't know if the UK has a similar

exception.

 

Of note are the complete banning of fu zi, wu tou, chuan wu and cao wu for

internal use. All are forms of the poisonous aconite. the majority of

poisoning from herb use in china is reportedly from various forms of

aconite. so the concern is not unjustified. In the US, only fu zi is

used with any regularity in internal medicine. fu zi can easily be

detoxified by the processor, but this is often not done adequately.

Subhuti Dharmananda reported independent research has shown that many

samples of fu zi were incompletely detoxified, sometimes retaining up to

80% of the original toxicity. for this reason, the dispensing of fu zi in

decoction is a risky affair. One of Ted's other points at PCOM, with

which I completely agree, is that there is wide variability and frequent

errors in patient's home decoctions. He said korean extractors were the

future of decoctions in america.

 

I personally like fu zi and find it to be a useful herb, sometimes

indispensable. However, I now prefer to use a form which I know has been

tested for toxicity. Some powder companies such as KPC do just this.

Even if using decoction of raw herbs, I would prefer my patients add

granules of fu zi rather than risk the herb not be properly detoxified.

 

Another restriction is limiting ma huang to .6 g TID. that is 1.8 grams

per day, quite low for some uses. I almost never use ma huang, but I

should be able to. Ted said there is immense hysteria out there amongst

medical docs about chinese herbs right now. I think I mentioned this

already...... At least once per day, someone asks Ted if chinese herbs

could have caused a patient's kidney failure. We need to show good sense

in order to avoid losing any of our herbs here in the US.

 

 

Chinese Herbs

 

 

" Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre

minds " -- Albert Einstein

[Guest guest]

Great point

I think that as long as herbs are considered a dietary supplement, we're

going to be on very thin ice. How many mistakes can be made before

drastic measures are taken? Are there any areas of the world that

regulate herbal practice? Obviously, it would be best if Chinese

herbalists were regulating the use of Chinese herbs. The regulators

could publish guidelines on dosages for toxic herbs, that would provide

some liability protection if something went wrong with a patient. I've

had patients who had some kind of health problem come up during a

regimen of herbs, and question me whether the herbs caused it or not.

It's just a matter of time until one patient out there is convinced that

the herbs caused a problem, get an attorney, and then cause a big

problem. If there were some guidelines for generally recognized

standard of practice, then that could be very helpful for herbal

practitioners out there.

 

I don't know if having a board of Chinese herbalists in the FDA to

re-class Chinese herbs away from 'dietary supplements', and then issuing

guidelines on their use would be beneficial or not (i.e., for every

problem there's an equal and opposite government program), but since

anybody could screw themselves up with the raw fu zi 'dietary

supplement' - better decisions can be made proactively then reactively.

Geoff

 

 

> __________

>

> <

> herb restrictions

>

> We need to

> show good sense

> in order to avoid losing any of our herbs here in the US.

[Guest guest]

Geoff,

 

[...]

> It's just a matter of time until one patient out there is

convinced that

> the herbs caused a problem, get an attorney, and then cause a big

> problem.

 

I don't know that time is all it takes.

In fact, there have been a number of

such cases already. That's not to diminish

the potential PR liability. It's one of

several weaknesses that make the profession

vulnerable...and, as it continues to grow,

attractive.

 

If there were some guidelines for generally recognized

> standard of practice, then that could be very helpful for herbal

> practitioners out there.

>

> I don't know if having a board of Chinese herbalists in the FDA to

> re-class Chinese herbs away from 'dietary supplements', and then

issuing

> guidelines on their use would be beneficial or not (i.e., for every

> problem there's an equal and opposite government program), but

since

> anybody could screw themselves up with the raw fu zi 'dietary

> supplement' - better decisions can be made proactively then

reactively.

 

The field has long struggled with its

ambivalence concerning established,

mainstream interests. Chinese medicine's

current acculturation in the States

was established on its initial trajectory

by people with a distinct political

and social agenda. Much of this has

changed, naturally enough, over the

years. But its position outside " the

establishment " remains somewhat engrained

or perhaps entangled is a better word.

 

In the end it really depends on what

people think they're doing.

 

> > <@i...>

> > herb restrictions

> >

> > We need to

> > show good sense

> > in order to avoid losing any of our herbs here in the US.

 

Which is why I stress the importance

between " sense " and " meaning " . If you

don't know the meaning, it's very hard

to make or show good sense.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Dear Simon,

 

 

Simon:

 

 

2) how to prove postitive identification. We are currently working with the Swiss government trying to establish the rules and regulations for the use of Chinese herbs. This gives us a lot of potential input. But if they come and say that they want definite idetification, you pretty quickly come to some difficulties. For example, as far as I know, there is only very limited English information available as far as monographs arre concerned (even less in German, but the Swiss Government would accept English literature as well). If anyone knows of some good sources for GOOD monographs, possibly even for granule monographs (mostly via TLCs), I'd would be very happy to hear. Stephen, does the AHP have monographs?

 

Marco:

 

Interesting and keep us posted please (these type of things will be really useful also here in Guatemala).

 

The world health organisation has monographs whether they are any good remains to be seen.

 

The address is http://www.who.int/en/ (forgot to enclose this address in the previous post -search Traditional medicine and / or go to the traditional medicine part).

 

They have monographs on Korean medicinal Plants, Chinese medicinal plants Vietnam and medicinal plants in the south Pacific.

 

Also,

 

WHO monographs on selected medicinal plants Volume 1-3 (vol, 1 is avaliable on line)

 

1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bulbus Allii Cepae

 

Bulbus Alli Sativi

 

Aloe

 

Aloe Vera Gel

 

Radix Astragali

 

Fructus Bruceae

 

Radix Bupleuri

 

Herba Centellae

 

Flos Chamomillae

 

Cortex Cinnamomi

 

Rhizoma Coptidis

 

Rhizoma Curcumae Longae

 

Radix Echinaceae

 

Herba Echinaceae Purpureae

 

 

15. Herba Ephedrae

16. Folium Ginkgo

17. Radix Ginseng

18. Radix Glycyrrhizae

19. Radix Paeoniae

20. Semen Plantaginis

21. Radix Platycodi

22. Radix Rauwolfiae

23. Rhizoma Rhei

24. Folium Sennae

25. Fructus Sennae

26. Herba Thymi

27. Herba Valerianae

28. Rhizoma Zingiberis

 

 

 

 

2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Radix Althaeae

 

Herba Andrographidis

 

Radix Angelicae Sinensis

 

Flos Calendulae

 

Flos Caryophylli

 

Rhizoma Cimicifugae

 

Folium cum Flore Crataegi

 

Radix Eleutherococci

 

Aetheroleum Eucalypti

 

Folium Melissae

 

Aetheroleum Menthae Piperitae

 

Folium Menthae Piperitae

 

Folium Ocimi Sancti

 

Oleum Oenotherae Biennis

 

Rhizoma Piperis Methystici

 

 

 

 

Cortex Pruni Africani

 

Cortex Rhamni Purshiani

 

Flos Sambuci

 

Radix Senegae

 

Fructus Serenoae Repentis

 

Fructus Silybi Mariae

 

Herba Tanaceti Parthenii

 

Radix Urticae

 

Folium Uvae Ursi

 

Folium Eucalypti

 

Cortex Frangulae

 

Folium et Cortex Hamamelidis

 

Semen Hippocastani

 

Herba Hyperici

 

Aetheroleum Melaleucae

 

3

 

 

 

 

1. Fructus Ammi Majoris 2. Fructus Ammi Visnagae

3. Fructus Anethi

4. Aetheroleum Anisi

5. Fructus Anisi

6. Semen Armeniacae

7. Flos Arnicae

8. Folium Azadirachtae

9. Oleum Azadirachtii

10. Flos Carthami

11. Stigma Croci

12. Fructus Foeniculi

13. Radix Gentianae Luteae

14. Radix Gentianae Scabrae

15. Gummi Gugguli

16. Radix Harpagophyti

 

17. Rhizoma Hydrastis

18. Radix Ipecacuanhae

19. Aetheroleum Lavandulae

20. Flos Lavandulae

21. Strobulus Lupuli

22. Gummi Myrrha

23. Herba Passiflorae

24. Testa Plantaginis

25. Radix Rehmanniae

26. Fructus Schisandrae

27. Radix Scutellariae

28. Radix cum Herba Taraxaci

29. Semen Trigonellae Foenugraeci

30. Cortex Uncariae

31. Fructus Zizyphi

 

Siomn, maybe this link is of usefull ness:

 

 

http://www.who-umc.org/umc.html

 

Monitoring center for drugs natural and synthetic considering that Chinese drugs (any drugs natural or otherwise)

 

The person in Charge of herbal toxicity monitoring:

Mohamed H. Farah (Pharm D, Programme Leader, Traditional Medicines)

Responsible for the development of herbal safety signal analysis, and for botanical and therapeutic classification of herbal substances and products.

 

I have heard from Crihistin Leon Kew gardens that Mohamed is very pleasant person and speaks four languages including Chinese.

 

Kew garden and Register of Chinese Herbal medicine UK is (I think) working on Fu Zi:

 

The Register of Chinese Herbal Medicine has instigated a detailed analysis of Aconitum Carmichaelii (fu zi) at Kew Garden Laboratories. Measurement of alkaloid aconitine levels are being assessed to determine the effects of processing and as a basis for quality assurance monitoring. The ultimate aim is to enable herbalists controlled use of this important Chinese herb in the UK.

RCHM - http://www.rchm.co.uk/ Relevant person Tony Harrison (I think)

Kew Gardens - http://www.rbgkew.org.uk/shops/chinese.html - Chinese Medicinal Plants Authentication Centre (Christine Leon possibly mist spelt)

Stephen, has the paper or document I think you mention with regard to standardisation and herbs been published in conjunction with AHP (Which stand for?)

 

Simon the project work you are doing is there an internet web site that one can learn more?

 

I am participating in a project of drawing guide lines and promoting Alternative and Complementary medicine in Guatemala of which the government currently consider Chinese medicine to be a part of...

 

There fore would love to learn more about what Switzerland and any other country is doing with above aspect in mind...

 

 

Marco

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

If anyone knows of some good sources for GOOD monographs

>>I think qualiherbs are working on this. talk to Samuel

Alon