Good thing doesn't last.

[Guest guest]

Hola, Herbalistas.

 

I've got a premature ejaculation case that has got me stumped. This

guy's signs and symptoms don't line up too well with the assumed causes

for PE.

 

Chief Complaint: Premature ejaculation. Specifically, he can't last

longer than one minute after penetration. Condoms do not help.

 

Patient is a 32 year old man of medium build and good health with no

apparent physical abnormalities.

 

The only symptoms that I got a positive response to during the asking

portion of the intake was that he reports low back pain when he is

fatigued. His hands were cold to the touch, he says that this is not

unusual. He reports that his feet are not cold.

 

One more observation: his pupils were very small - pinpoint small. He

said that he is not taking drugs and I believed him. I asked him if he

was sensitive to light and he said that sometimes he is, and that he

does tend to wear sunglasses, at least when outside. (We're in Southern

California, for the record).

 

He works at a computer all day as an accountant for a health care

company. His spirit is very calm, very relaxed, flexible in his goals in

life. He has two children, age 3 and 8. He thinks his wife is very

attractive. He feels like he is successful in his career and his life in

general.

 

At age nine, his mother took him and his three siblings away from his

abusive father in Ohio to live in California. He reports that he is not

abusive with his children and that they are of profound value to him and

his wife. The quality of our conversation was such that I would offer

to you that these observations are true and correct.

 

Tongue: Swollen with teeth marks, thin white coating, slight cracks in

the middle third of the tongue. They aren't the dryness type of cracks,

but cracks that appear as if the tongue is water-logged. I believe that

this is referred to as " tender " or a " young " tongue. The tongue body

has a slight purple color to it, and the tip is red. The redness goes

back to about 20% of the anterior portion of the tongue.

 

Pulses: The left side pulses are wiry, wide, and full. The Kidney pulse

lacks deep root. The Heart pulse is deeper than the Kidney pulse.

 

The right side pulses are similar to the left, the only difference is

that the middle position is larger in width and diameter than the other

two. I consider this " Earth Excess " or internal dampness, just for the record.

 

So, we have a red tongue tip which is the most likely the real cause of

the PE. My problem is figuring out where that heat is coming from. Also,

I might add that he has no problem sleeping. There are no intense

dreams. He reports that he can only remember having a dream once per

month. He reports that he can't remember ever having a noctural emission.

 

You'd think that if there were that much heat in the heart he'd be

restless or easily angered, etc. but this guy is really really relaxed.

 

The causes for PE according to the Clincal Handbook of Internal Medicine

include:

 

Heat or damp heat in the lower Jiao. Patient has no infections or STD's

in the urinary or reproductive systems.

 

Liver Fire: Patient has no temper, irritability, restlessness, or any of

the symptoms.

 

Kidney Yin Xu with Fire: Low back pain with fatigue (though not fatigued

in general), no other symptoms. The kidney pulse lacking root supports

this diagnosis.

 

Kidney Yang and Yin Xu: Cold hands, low back pain with fatigue.

Premature ejaculation problem is no worse with fatigue and no better

when rested. The Kidney pulse lacking root supports this diagnosis too.

 

I'm also considering perhaps Qi stagnation causing heat to rise to the

Heart leading to the PE.

 

I have in the past given him two weeks worth of Zhi Bai Di Huang Wan

modified with no results, which didn't bother me too much, but he gave

up and I didn't see him till today. Today I gave him a formula made up

of all the herbs I could think of that would address the heart fire and

astringe the jing but most importantly I just need a diagnosis. This guy

doesn't show any specific pattern that I can put my finger on.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

-al.

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

Al,

 

Thanks for posting an interesting case in such

detail. It reminds me of a case I saw several

years ago in Chengdu when I was doing a

diagnostic internship in the acupuncture

outpatient wards at CDUTCM.

 

That case was even more clearly one of kidney

vacuity despite the youth of the patient,

who was only 26.

 

Since you don't find any troubling symptoms

to deal with, it seems to me that you can

deal directly with the root...so to speak.

 

In fact I wonder whether or not it might

be a good idea to delve into some of the

details of his sexual relations. What exactly

goes on during his relations with his wife?

 

Perhaps there is something that can be

worked on or worked out as a dynamic of

their sexual relations to help his " problem. "

 

Does he lose his erection after ejaculation?

 

If so, is there a built up frustration

that now exists between him and his wife?

 

Is he plagued by the expectation of

" failure " when entering into sexual

relations?

 

You might discuss the notion of the

Daoist exercises related to control

of the male orgasm and semen retention.

Are you familiar with these? Do you

have materials to hand? We've got

a bunch of stuff we've translated

for our next book which deals with

Daoist alchemy including sexual

alchemy. It's not ready for public

release yet, but if you're lacking

references on this stuff, contact

me privately and I'll see what I

can get to you, if the patient is

interested in pursuing it.

 

 

You didn't mention this, but are we to assume

his wife is his only sexual partner?

 

I would approach the case by supporting the

kidneys. I would urge him to study tai4ji2.

This is how Dr. Wang, the director

of the acupuncture department in those

days, treated the young man I mentioned,

with formulas to support the kidneys.

 

Ken

 

 

I would also , Al Stone <alstone@b...>

wrote:

> Hola, Herbalistas.

>

> I've got a premature ejaculation case that has got me stumped.

This

> guy's signs and symptoms don't line up too well with the assumed

causes

> for PE.

>

> Chief Complaint: Premature ejaculation. Specifically, he can't last

> longer than one minute after penetration. Condoms do not help.

>

> Patient is a 32 year old man of medium build and good health with

no

> apparent physical abnormalities.

>

> The only symptoms that I got a positive response to during the

asking

> portion of the intake was that he reports low back pain when he is

> fatigued. His hands were cold to the touch, he says that this is

not

> unusual. He reports that his feet are not cold.

>

> One more observation: his pupils were very small - pinpoint

small. He

> said that he is not taking drugs and I believed him. I asked him

if he

> was sensitive to light and he said that sometimes he is, and that

he

> does tend to wear sunglasses, at least when outside. (We're in

Southern

> California, for the record).

>

> He works at a computer all day as an accountant for a health care

> company. His spirit is very calm, very relaxed, flexible in his

goals in

> life. He has two children, age 3 and 8. He thinks his wife is very

> attractive. He feels like he is successful in his career and his

life in general.

>

> At age nine, his mother took him and his three siblings away from

his

> abusive father in Ohio to live in California. He reports that he

is not

> abusive with his children and that they are of profound value to

him and

> his wife. The quality of our conversation was such that I would

offer

> to you that these observations are true and correct.

>

> Tongue: Swollen with teeth marks, thin white coating, slight

cracks in

> the middle third of the tongue. They aren't the dryness type of

cracks,

> but cracks that appear as if the tongue is water-logged. I believe

that

> this is referred to as " tender " or a " young " tongue. The tongue

body

> has a slight purple color to it, and the tip is red. The redness

goes

> back to about 20% of the anterior portion of the tongue.

>

> Pulses: The left side pulses are wiry, wide, and full. The Kidney

pulse

> lacks deep root. The Heart pulse is deeper than the Kidney pulse.

>

> The right side pulses are similar to the left, the only difference

is

> that the middle position is larger in width and diameter than the

other

> two. I consider this " Earth Excess " or internal dampness, just

for the record.

>

> So, we have a red tongue tip which is the most likely the real

cause of

> the PE. My problem is figuring out where that heat is coming from.

Also,

> I might add that he has no problem sleeping. There are no intense

> dreams. He reports that he can only remember having a dream once

per

> month. He reports that he can't remember ever having a noctural

emission.

>

> You'd think that if there were that much heat in the heart he'd be

> restless or easily angered, etc. but this guy is really really

relaxed.

>

> The causes for PE according to the Clincal Handbook of Internal

Medicine include:

>

> Heat or damp heat in the lower Jiao. Patient has no infections or

STD's

> in the urinary or reproductive systems.

>

> Liver Fire: Patient has no temper, irritability, restlessness, or

any of

> the symptoms.

>

> Kidney Yin Xu with Fire: Low back pain with fatigue (though not

fatigued

> in general), no other symptoms. The kidney pulse lacking root

supports

> this diagnosis.

>

> Kidney Yang and Yin Xu: Cold hands, low back pain with fatigue.

> Premature ejaculation problem is no worse with fatigue and no

better

> when rested. The Kidney pulse lacking root supports this diagnosis

too.

>

> I'm also considering perhaps Qi stagnation causing heat to rise to

the

> Heart leading to the PE.

>

> I have in the past given him two weeks worth of Zhi Bai Di Huang

Wan

> modified with no results, which didn't bother me too much, but he

gave

> up and I didn't see him till today. Today I gave him a formula

made up

> of all the herbs I could think of that would address the heart

fire and

> astringe the jing but most importantly I just need a diagnosis.

This guy

> doesn't show any specific pattern that I can put my finger on.

>

> Thanks for any help.

>

> -al.

> --

> Al Stone L.Ac.

> <AlStone@B...>

> http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

>

> Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

dragon90405 wrote:

 

> In fact I wonder whether or not it might

> be a good idea to delve into some of the

> details of his sexual relations. What exactly

> goes on during his relations with his wife?

 

I did get into this today and didn't find anything unusual to be honest.

At least not unsual from my sphere of experience.

 

> You might discuss the notion of the

> Daoist exercises related to control

> of the male orgasm and semen retention.

> Are you familiar with these? Do you

> have materials to hand?

 

Yes, I do and that is a good idea. Something to look into anyway.

 

In the meantime, is there a book that articulates specific techniques

that you can recommend?

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

Al,

 

>

> > In fact I wonder whether or not it might

> > be a good idea to delve into some of the

> > details of his sexual relations. What exactly

> > goes on during his relations with his wife?

>

> I did get into this today and didn't find anything unusual to be

honest.

> At least not unsual from my sphere of experience.

 

Never quite sure what " unusual " means when

applied to sex, since the variety of sexual

appetite and practice spans such a wide

spectrum. I'd still suggest that you might

fruitfully explore with him the dynamics of

his sexual life, since regardless of however

else you might describe, explain, or address

the problem, it is an important aspect of

his sexual relationship. So the solution

may well lie, at least in part, within

those dynamics.

 

 

 

>

> > You might discuss the notion of the

> > Daoist exercises related to control

> > of the male orgasm and semen retention.

> > Are you familiar with these? Do you

> > have materials to hand?

>

> Yes, I do and that is a good idea. Something to look into anyway.

>

> In the meantime, is there a book that articulates specific

techniques

> that you can recommend?

 

No. There are several books, but I believe

they are plauged by various terminological

problems that make them difficult if not

impossible to understand not to mention

put into practices the theories and practices

that they purvey.

 

One of the challenges that I've faced

in working with the manuscript of our

forthcoming book that touches on this subject

is in finding people who actually practice

the various ideas and techniques contained

in the books that have already been published

on the subject.

 

I'm also concerned about a number of anecdotes

I've received from individuals who report having

damaged themselves after practicing various

of the techniques that are in the extant English

language literature.

 

I think certain aspects related to the idea

of conservation and " retention " of jing1

have been distorted and exaggerated in much

of the English literature on the subject.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Zhu Dan-xi warns about these practices in his book of medical essays.

Blue Poppy has a nice translation of it.

 

Probably the most 'full-blown' expression of this approach is the

Mantak Chia group. Remember that book 'The Hundred Orgasm Man' (or

something like that) with the grinning guy on the cover?

 

I'd be interested to see if anyone on this list had any experience (or

had patients or friends) with this group and its approach to sexual

practice.

 

 

On Tuesday, December 3, 2002, at 08:15 PM, dragon90405 wrote:

 

>

> I think certain aspects related to the idea

> of conservation and " retention " of jing1

> have been distorted and exaggerated in much

> of the English literature on the subject.

>

> Ken

[Guest guest]

, " " <zrosenbe@s...>

wrote:

..

>

> Probably the most 'full-blown' expression of this approach is the

> Mantak Chia group. Remember that book 'The Hundred Orgasm Man' (or

> something like that) with the grinning guy on the cover?

>

> I'd be interested to see if anyone on this list had any experience

(or

> had patients or friends) with this group and its approach to

sexual

> practice.

 

Zev,

A little myself but, in particular, a friend in his 80's who has been

doing Mantak Chia's stuff for years with seemingly amazing results.

Do you have any specific questions?

 

Simon King

[Guest guest]

The practise of injaculation/holding back/semen retention has always carried

a warning with it. Whenever there is a drawing up of jing and qi through the

Du meridian into the crown point, one can bring excessive qi to the brain,

or chest if forced with erroneous Qi Gong (as Bob outlined in his Chinese

Medical Psych book) and erroneous Taoist/Tantric Sexual practises. There

have been numerous writers other than Mantak Chia - Daniel Reid writes of

the practise in his Tao of Health, Sex and Longevity and Dr. Stephen T.

Chang wrote of it in the Tao of Sexology. The practise would appear to be

widespread among various monks. The Emperor would have to be trained in the

proper use of his vitality as with any group of men who could afford many

concubines. Was Zhu Dan-xi's warning related to unfulfilled desire? Or

the Seven Affects/Damages?

 

Given that, I have to admit to having practised about 8 years and think it

has made some good effect on my qigong practise, although I wouldn't know

otherwise. I can tell the day after an ejaculation my qi is not as

substantial in the various manifestations of my hands - dantain - crown

point and heavenly circuit when doing either standing postures or seated.

With the subsequent weeks of semen retention, a more dense and substantial

qi seems present when drawn into the Du channel and down the Ren into the

Dantian. My subjective opinion is that the practice strengthens the Du and

Ren qi flow and helps condense Qi in the Dantian. I wouldn't profess this

practice unless someone was willing to practise some standing postures (Zhan

Zhuang) like Shao'lin Nei Jing Yi Zhi Chan because developement of the

Dantian draws the qi safely into the the lower dan. I believe it wasn't

taught until one could do this much like some Tai Ji masters insist. You

have to be able to conduct your qi properly.

 

The other aspect of this would be the prolonged contact between a couple,

typically an hour or more that can make one feel truly invigorated rather

than drained. Physically, one feels closer after intercourse with your

partner and the pleasure remains greater over a longer period of time. I do

not miss orgasm but will have one on occasion( Once a month for a man in his

fifties). I would rather have the pleasure of the prolonged contact and the

energy of the orgasm retained. Mind you even my Taiwanese girl friend warns

me not to " glue my brains " with the practice..

 

Rod

 

 

 

 

> " Simon King " <dallasking

>

>

> Re: Good thing doesn't last.

>Thu, 05 Dec 2002 07:41:32 -0000

>

>, " " <zrosenbe@s...>

>wrote:

>.

> >

> > Probably the most 'full-blown' expression of this approach is the

> > Mantak Chia group. Remember that book 'The Hundred Orgasm Man' (or

> > something like that) with the grinning guy on the cover?

> >

> > I'd be interested to see if anyone on this list had any experience

>(or

> > had patients or friends) with this group and its approach to

>sexual

> > practice.

>

>Zev,

>A little myself but, in particular, a friend in his 80's who has been

>doing Mantak Chia's stuff for years with seemingly amazing results.

>Do you have any specific questions?

>

>Simon King

>

 

 

_______________

Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online

http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

[Guest guest]

Rod,

 

Thanks for your post. I have a question

regarding the definition/translation of

the word jing1. Based on your study and

particularly on your personal experience,

what does jing1 mean with respect to

the type of sexual cultivation you describe?

 

I'm asking not just for your concept of

the appropriate English cognate of the

Chinese character but for your understanding

both literal and conceptual and, as I

said above, experiential, of jing1.

 

Hope you can take some time to formulate

your thoughts on my question, and I will

be grateful for your comments.

 

Best,

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

, " Rod Le Blanc " <rodleblancdtcm@h...>

Mind you even my Taiwanese girl friend warns me not to " glue my

brains " with the practice..>>>

 

This is an important point for people who may be interested in

trying this practice. The point is to not only 'not have sexual

release,' but to refrain from sexual stimulation except in limited

encounters with a partner---something difficult to do while living

in a big city and surrounded by highly sexualized advertising and

media. Any sexual stimulation will begin to convert the qi back into

semen and be lost from circulation. We used to call this a " dead

store " since it made the qi circulation feel more stagnant and

heavy. And it's always prefered to use younger partners with lots of

strong energy.

 

I had one patient in his 50s who read the books and always withheld

from releasing because he had a young girlfriend. His prostate had

grown so large that to release his bladder he had to catheterize

himself several times each day.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

Jim,

 

The point is to not only 'not have sexual

> release,' but to refrain from sexual stimulation except in limited

> encounters with a partner

 

Really? Where does this come from?

 

Is it something that everybody knows?

Is it from a particular source?

 

Just curious...

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

, " Rod Le Blanc " <rodleblancdtcm@h...>

wrote:

 

I can tell the day after an ejaculation my qi is not as

> substantial in the various manifestations of my hands - dantain - crown

> point and heavenly circuit when doing either standing postures or seated.

 

While popular english texts focused on taoist sex may discuss semen

retention as a general good thing, it is my understanding that the medical

community did not feel this way. Like any practice, this is not a panacea. If

the practice focuses on accumulation of qi (and not all methods do; some

focus on dispersal), then it is appropriate for deficiency cases, but not for

excess. If it focuses on raising qi when descending is indicated, likewise

problems will ensue. TCM treatment principles apply to every activity one

may prescribe. there are no panaceas. In fact, lack of ejaculation in young

men is often considered a cause of disease. In theory, one could learn

practices to offset the stagnation that results from semen retention, but most

will not have the discipline to do this, so it may be a dangerous undertaking

for many.

 

[Guest guest]

And I'm just curious: why does ejaculation and orgasm have to be pathologized? Why can't meaningful sexual contact be energizing? Even if it's every day? On some level there is a real exchange of energy. Moving up and down the du and ren ( genitals to lips and so on) And, believe me- it's not like we girls are accumulating the qi.

Or maybe we are all sexual vampires :-)

 

BTW- I have recently had great success treating a menopausal woman, unable to orgasm, if anyone is interested.

 

Cara

 

Jim,

 

The point is to not only 'not have sexual

> release,' but to refrain from sexual stimulation except in limited

> encounters with a partner

 

Really? Where does this come from?

 

Is it something that everybody knows?

Is it from a particular source?

 

Just curious...

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " dragon90405 " <yulong@m...> wrote:

> > The point is to not only 'not have sexual

> > release,' but to refrain from sexual stimulation except in

limited encounters with a partner

>

> Really? Where does this come from?

>

> Is it something that everybody knows?

> Is it from a particular source?

 

 

If the purpose is spiritual development, the general process is to

convert jing into qi, qi into shen, and connect shen back into yang

shen. In internal alchemy, substances are refined, accumulated, then

futrther refined. One should be able to sense the change in the

density and quality of qi circulation. This goes back to our tai

chi/meditation training back in the 70s; the sources are Chinese

Buddhist practitioners. It was used as part of the foundation of

vibratory power (fajing---sp?).

 

Any sexual stimulation begins the converstion of qi into jing and

jing into physical semen which cannot circulate and is released

outside the body. If you're just looking to get it on longer, than

this idea is of no importance or consequence.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

, " " <@i...> wrote:

If it focuses on raising qi when descending is indicated, likewise

> problems will ensue. >>

 

:

 

This is an excellent point. Most of these problems arise because of

incomplete or ignored instructions. I've treated a lot of martial

art and meditators with ascending qi problems.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

, " James Ramholz " <jramholz> wrote:

 

>

> Any sexual stimulation begins the converstion of qi into jing and

> jing into physical semen which cannot circulate and is released

> outside the body. If you're just looking to get it on longer, than

> this idea is of no importance or consequence.

>

 

 

some tantric schools of thought feel one can use any type of sexual

stimulation to convert ojas (ayurvedic concept similar to jing) into prana

(ayurvedic concept similar to qi). It will convert to semen if left on

automatic,

but according to aghora tantra, with conscious transformation, one can

convert any stimulation into prana. Aghora focuses on considering all

manifestations of brahman as sacred, eventhose that are conventionally

considered base or evil or profane. It is the most left hand of all the paths I

have learned about. for accounts of the extreme nature of aghora practices,

see robert Svoboda's books on the subject. an aghora can make equal use of

pornography, drugs, alcohol, masturbation to achieve the goal. the ascetic

path Jim describes is generally considered safer, but more importantly the

right hand paths preserve social convention. No government wants all their

citizens running around as aghoris, so this is a well accepted historical

reason why such practices were banned. they do not support the status quo.

according to aghora tantra as I was taught, one can spend a million lifetimes

practicing right hand paths like hatha yoga, but will never be released from

the cyle of reincarnation until one can fully embrace and transform all aspects

of manifest reality. To reject part of the manifest world still creates a

mental

duality of good and evil, right and wrong, which can only be transcended by

full embrace of light and shadow. As long as any duality remains, one is

coming back for another ride.

 

[Guest guest]

Cara,

 

> And I'm just curious: why does ejaculation and orgasm have to be

> pathologized? Why can't meaningful sexual contact be energizing?

Even if

> it's every day? On some level there is a real exchange of energy.

 

Excellent question! One of the reasons that

I've been interested in following up on

this thread is that we've explored some

of the material related to this topic

of Daoist sexual alchemy, and I don't

really find in the literature the kind

of formulations of ideas that are currently

popular. The oncepts are similar, but the

overall idea is...well...different.

 

In Sun Si Miao, one of the consumate

Daoist alchemists, for example, there is no

proscription banning sexual excitation,

intercourse, release, and downright indulgence.

He does address the issue of retention of

jing1. But though it is often considered

a simple thing by many who deal with it,

I believe the meaning of the terms in this

case holds a profound set of implications

for the theory and practice.

 

I won't go into it at length here. After

all, we've written a whole book about it

which should be out one of these years

and then anyone who is interested can

read all about it...well, read some more

about it.

 

But I'm glad that you raised the question

because as I think Todd pointed out in

a post on this thread, one should consider

the issues related to sexuality in alignment

with the overal theoretical matrix.

 

Moving up

> and down the du and ren ( genitals to lips and so on) And, believe

me- it's

> not like we girls are accumulating the qi.

> Or maybe we are all sexual vampires :-)

 

Well, if you're not accumulating it, what

are you doing with it?

 

>

> BTW- I have recently had great success treating a menopausal

woman, unable

> to orgasm, if anyone is interested.

 

What were you treating her for? Her inability

to have an orgasm? I'm interested.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Thanks Ken for responding.

 

Moving up

> and down the du and ren ( genitals to lips and so on) And, believe

me- it's

> not like we girls are accumulating the qi.

> Or maybe we are all sexual vampires :-)

 

Well, if you're not accumulating it, what

are you doing with it?

 

besides giving back to y'all boys? Why assume we keep it?

Menstruating and giving birth is what we do. although nothing has drained my Jing as much as being a single parent.

 

But seriously: think for a moment about the movement of qi in men and women during sex: a mans qi rises form bottom to top- a woman's from top to bottom. The act of kissing and intercourse should, theoretically move in an energetic circuit. In a healthy relationship it should be equally draining/ replenishing, etc. And lets not forget the good qi we get from a loving relationship. The heart should be filled with joy and that should far outweigh any Jing depletion.

 

>

> BTW- I have recently had great success treating a menopausal

woman, unable

> to orgasm, if anyone is interested.

 

What were you treating her for? Her inability

to have an orgasm? I'm interested.

 

The case is at the office- I'll report on it next week when I can refer to her file.

 

Just curious to the list: there is much discussion of the theoretical: could we have some input on herbs to deal w/ these issues of Jing depletion? How are people feeling about medicinals like Hai Ma- sea horse- ( since they are endangered as well as not Kosher or Vegetarian). What should we use from the botanical kingdom?

 

 

Cara

[Guest guest]

In , Cara Frank herbbabe@e...>

wrote:

> Just curious to the list: there is much discussion of the

theoretical: could we have some input on herbs to deal w/these

issues of Jing depletion?

 

 

 

Cara:

 

I recorded one formula we use for Daoist sexual practice in our

acupuncture system in my book (out of print):

 

Formula 1

Golden Phoenix Liquour

 

2 parts Shu di huang

2 parts Sheng di huang

2 parts Dang gui shen

2 parts Mai men dong

2 parts Gu qi zi

2 parts Yin yang huo

1 part Sha ren

 

Put the ingredients in a large jar and cover with vodka or cognac;

store in a cool dry place. After aging it for 3 months, you can

begin using it. Aging it a year of more is prefered.

 

 

 

Formula 2

Found in Chinese texts too, but we nicknamed it " Dantian Storm "

(after one of the Korean nicknames for Bai ji tian)

 

10 parts Ren shen

10 parts Bai ji tian

5 parts Suan zao ren

5 parts Huang qi

3 parts Rou gui

3 parts Dang gui

2 parts Bai ji ren

2 parts Tu si zi

2 parts Yuan zhi

1 part Fu zi (pao)

1 part Pao jiang

 

Benefits jing and supports Mingmen. This one can be made in powder

form.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

, " dragon90405 "

> But though it is often considered

> a simple thing by many who deal with it,

> I believe the meaning of the terms in this

> case holds a profound set of implications

> for the theory and practice.

> I won't go into it at length here.

 

Please share with us your " profound set of implications. "

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

Jim,

 

I've done just that in the next book. If I

thought they could be summed up in a post

here, I wouldn't have taken the time to

write a book about these implications.

 

The book also has two chapters on herbs

and formulas for dealing with a whole

range of sex-related issues.

 

And I am happy to share all of this with

whomever wants it.

 

 

> > But though it is often considered

> > a simple thing by many who deal with it,

> > I believe the meaning of the terms in this

> > case holds a profound set of implications

> > for the theory and practice.

> > I won't go into it at length here.

>

> Please share with us your " profound set of implications. "

>

>

Ken

[Guest guest]

Interesting that the 1st formula is mainly comprised of yin tonics: Emphasizing stillness

the second is striking for it's inclusion of yuan zhi. For what: Brooding? compulsive behavior? Overall, it's much warmer. But what these 2 rx's tell me is that there is nothing special or secret here. Just attention to kidney supplementation. How does aging it a year improve it? and how does the alcohol extraction change it in this case?

 

Formula 1

Golden Phoenix Liquour

 

2 parts Shu di huang

2 parts Sheng di huang

2 parts Dang gui shen

2 parts Mai men dong

2 parts Gu qi zi

2 parts Yin yang huo

1 part Sha ren

 

Put the ingredients in a large jar and cover with vodka or cognac;

store in a cool dry place. After aging it for 3 months, you can

begin using it. Aging it a year of more is prefered.

 

 

 

Formula 2

Found in Chinese texts too, but we nicknamed it " Dantian Storm "

(after one of the Korean nicknames for Bai ji tian)

 

10 parts Ren shen

10 parts Bai ji tian

5 parts Suan zao ren

5 parts Huang qi

3 parts Rou gui

3 parts Dang gui

2 parts Bai ji ren

2 parts Tu si zi

2 parts Yuan zhi

1 part Fu zi (pao)

1 part Pao jiang

 

Benefits jing and supports Mingmen. This one can be made in powder

form.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

, Cara Frank

<herbbabe@e...> wrote:

> Interesting that the 1st formula is mainly comprised of yin tonics:

> Emphasizing stillness the second is striking for it's inclusion of

yuan zhi. For what: Brooding? compulsive behavior? Overall, it's

much warmer. But what these 2 rx's tell me is that there is nothing

special or secret here. Just attention to kidney supplementation.

How does aging it a year improve it? and how does the alcohol

extraction change it in this case?

 

 

Cara:

 

I thought of these two formulas because they are interesting and

practical.

 

What in your mind would be an example of something " special or

secret " ?

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

yes- I agree. they are both interesting and practical.

Besides eye of newt: I guess I was thinking about patents like 7 penis pills. and other animal medicinals. Or minerals perhaps - I'm not even able to think of any at this moment. Are there any? ( what keeps springing to mind is Zi Shi Ying- fluorite, as it is used to warm the uterus- is there an equivilant for semen?).

Also, I noticed that the formulas contain nothing astringent .

 

also, on second glance, the 2nd formula that you recorded is not only warming: in my opinion it's acrid/hot enough to injure the yin. ba ji tian, fu zi, rou gui. ren shen.

 

If I were to write the formula myself , abstractly, with no particular patient in mind, I would combine principles from both the formulas that you have presented. Sexual function in both men and women is a combination of yin and yang functions.

 

Cara

 

 

, Cara Frank

<herbbabe@e...> wrote:

> Interesting that the 1st formula is mainly comprised of yin tonics:

> Emphasizing stillness the second is striking for it's inclusion of

yuan zhi. For what: Brooding? compulsive behavior? Overall, it's

much warmer. But what these 2 rx's tell me is that there is nothing

special or secret here. Just attention to kidney supplementation.

How does aging it a year improve it? and how does the alcohol

extraction change it in this case?

 

 

Cara:

 

I thought of these two formulas because they are interesting and

practical.

 

What in your mind would be an example of something " special or

secret " ?

 

 

Jim Ramholz

 

 

 

Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, Cara Frank

<herbbabe@e...> wrote:

> yes- I agree. they are both interesting and practical.

> Besides eye of newt: I guess I was thinking about patents like 7

penis pills.

 

 

Cara:

 

You may be interested to hear that a recent news report said that

the use of Viagra in Asia is shrinking (no pun intended) the market

for exotic and endangered species that go into those kind of

formulas. Last night, the news said that the Chinese are trying to

nullify the patent for it too. So we may expect it to be hidden in

future patent medicine pills.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

, Cara Frank

<herbbabe@e...> wrote:

> yes-I agree. they are both interesting and practical.

> Besides eye of newt: I guess I was thinking about patents like 7

penis pills and other animal medicinals. Or minerals perhaps - I'm

not even able to think of any at this moment. Are there any?

 

Cara:

 

I finally remembered one formula of a sort that may satisfy your

curiousity.

 

In order to please a drowsy, impotent aging emperor, his guards are

sent out to the countryside to bring back from separate distant

villages a young and attractive woman and a young strong man. Each

is held in a cell, stripped naked, and kept in isolation. At first,

the young man and woman cannot see each other but may talk as long

as the guards are not around. It is the beginning of their

imprisonment and they are alone and naked, seeking any scrap of

comfort where they can. After a while, they are held in cells that

are closer to each other. They can talk easier now and get to know

each other a little. They have no one but each other for comfort. As

time goes on, they are finally held in the same cell; shackled on

opposite walls. They can now see that the other one is naked and

they are drawn closer emotionally. This new intimacy and their

nakedness---almost being able to touch the other if they stretch out

the chains and their arms---evokes a heightened erotic and sensuous

dimension which contrasts their sense of isolation and helplessness.

 

When they are finally sexually aroused and excited by the sight and

barest touch of each other, the guards---who have been watching

their behavior carefully all this time---rush in and cut off their

heads. The heads are then placed on large loafs of bread to sop up

the blood.

 

The blood is incredibly rich in hormones and neuropeptides that,

when eaten by the emperor, provide very strong stimulation and

stamina. He can perform as if he was young again and satisfy his

lust.

 

I think this qualifies as the dark side in Todd's Aghora Yoga

criteria.

 

 

Jim Ramholz