traumatic spinal cord injury

[Guest guest]

Greetings,

 

My friend's son, 22 y.o. active male, was involved in a MVA in which he sustained a compression fracture to C7. He had surgery to fuse C6 to T1 (with help of a hip bone) and his spinal cord was not severed. However, he has been diagnosed as a quadriplegic as he has some of the use of his arms/hands, but has no use or control of his legs. He does have sensations when people touch his toes/calves and he does have nerve pain of the burning sensation (throughout his legs from buttocks to toes).

He is 4 weeks post accident.

Has anyone ever treated a person after this type of injury? What types of herbs would you recommend? His pulses are slippery and slightly wiry and his tongue is red and puffy, with no coat (he brushes his tongue. . .). He is on a great deal of medicine - Neurontin for the peripheral pain, blood thinner to reduce the chance of blood clotting, stool softeners, zoloft, med for muscle spasms, and pain pills for overall discomfort.

He is eating hospital food, and I have given suggestios for dietary changes as people are bringing in food for him as well.

Presently, he gets nausea when upright and can only stay in his wheelchair for 45 minutes at a time before feeling sick and sometimes vomiting. He is receiving PT daily. Family is open to acupuncture and herbs at this time.

ANy and all suggestions are wlecomed. THank you in advance.

 

Susan Froehlich, LAc

Hood RIver, OR

[Guest guest]

Susan:

 

Can you be specific about the nerve damage?

 

 

Jim Ramholz

 

 

 

, SusFro@A... wrote:

> Greetings,

>

> My friend's son, 22 y.o. active male, was involved in a MVA in

which he sustained a compression fracture to C7. He had surgery to

fuse C6 to T1 (with help of a hip bone) and his spinal cord was not

severed. However, he has been diagnosed as a quadriplegic as he has

some of the use of his arms/hands, but has no use or control of his

legs. He does have sensations when people touch his toes/calves and

he does have nerve pain of the burning sensation (throughout his

legs from buttocks to toes).

> He is 4 weeks post accident.

> Has anyone ever treated a person after this type of injury? What

types of herbs would you recommend? His pulses are slippery and

slightly wiry and his tongue is red and puffy, with no coat (he

brushes his tongue. . .). He is on a great deal of medicine -

Neurontin for the peripheral pain, blood thinner to reduce the

chance of blood clotting, stool softeners, zoloft, med for

> muscle spasms, and pain pills for overall discomfort.

> He is eating hospital food, and I have given suggestios for

dietary changes as people are bringing in food for him as well.

> Presently, he gets nausea when upright and can only stay in his

wheelchair for 45 minutes at a time before feeling sick and

sometimes vomiting. He is receiving PT daily. Family is open to

acupuncture and herbs at this time.

> ANy and all suggestions are wlecomed. THank you in advance.

>

> Susan Froehlich, LAc

> Hood RIver, OR

[Guest guest]

You might want to look at Subhuti Dharmananda's article - "Salvia, and the History of Microcirculation Research in China", which can be found at:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/salvia.htm

Note: There is, of course, a warning at the end regarding its use with Warfarin, so naturally caution is advised with blood thinners. The article is FYI (and dare i suggest it be offered for perusal to the MD involved?).

 

(Anecdotally, i might report that i feel taking salvia was useful in resolving a case of osteomyelitis in the thumb in myself recently - etiology uncertain).

 

Ann Brameier

 

 

My friend's son, 22 y.o. active male, was involved in a MVA in which he sustained a compression fracture to C7. He had surgery to fuse C6 to T1 (with help of a hip bone) and his spinal cord was not severed. However, he has been diagnosed as a quadriplegic as he has some of the use of his arms/hands, but has no use or control of his legs. He does have sensations when people touch his toes/calves and he does have nerve pain of the burning sensation (throughout his legs from buttocks to toes). He is 4 weeks post accident. Has anyone ever treated a person after this type of injury? What types of herbs would you recommend? His pulses are slippery and slightly wiry and his tongue is red and puffy, with no coat (he brushes his tongue. . .). He is on a great deal of medicine - Neurontin for the peripheral pain, blood thinner to reduce the chance of blood clotting, stool softeners, zoloft, med for muscle spasms, and pain pills for overall discomfort. He is eating hospital food, and I have given suggestios for dietary changes as people are bringing in food for him as well. Presently, he gets nausea when upright and can only stay in his wheelchair for 45 minutes at a time before feeling sick and sometimes vomiting. He is receiving PT daily. Family is open to acupuncture and herbs at this time. ANy and all suggestions are wlecomed. THank you in advance. Susan Froehlich, LAc Hood RIver, OR

[Guest guest]

, <snakeoil.works@m...>

wrote:

> You might want to look at Subhuti Dharmananda's article - " Salvia, and the

History of Microcirculation Research in China " , which can be found at:

> http://www.itmonline.org/arts/salvia.htm

> Note: There is, of course, a warning at the end regarding its use with

Warfarin, so naturally caution is advised with blood thinners. The article is

FYI

(and dare i suggest it be offered for perusal to the MD involved?).

>

 

makes sense. however with all the meds susan's patient is on, I would not

use herbs. A huge number of herbs reduce platelet stickiness, which is

generally a good thing ( see http://.org/salvia.html ).

Most have not been studied for their interaction with warfarin, but those that

have are diverse enought to give me pause (ren shen, da suan, dan shen,

dang gui). While early treatment with in a controlled setting under the

guidance of an MD who can monitor potential drug/herb interactions would be

ideal, that is still science fiction at this point. I don't want to start an

acupuncture thread here, but I would limit myself to that modality. FYI, high

dose enzymes and antioxidants in general have blood thinning properties,

too.

 

todd

[Guest guest]

 

I agree with your comments - which was why i called attention to Subhuti's

warning in the final paragraphs of this article, where he gives a link to

another article on herb-drug interactions.

But i did feel the whole article was an interesting study, and, placebo or

not(:-), salvia seemed to be of great benefit to me. So the article may

simply be 'for our information'; pity we cannot apply it in some of the more

dire circumstances as the case in point. ITM has salvia tablets, a

convenient way to supply it, alone or as adjunct to other herbals.

 

Another consideration is that, lacking the option to utilize it in the

crisis phase, it might be considered safer as the graver aspect of injuries

is resolved, other drug dose is reduced, and patient may use it to

accelerate ultimate healing, with collusion of the primary md's, of course.

 

ann

 

> , <snakeoil.works@m...>

> wrote:

> > You might want to look at Subhuti Dharmananda's article - " Salvia, and

the

> History of Microcirculation Research in China " , which can be found at:

> > http://www.itmonline.org/arts/salvia.htm

> > Note: There is, of course, a warning at the end regarding its use with

> Warfarin, so naturally caution is advised with blood thinners. The article

is FYI

> (and dare i suggest it be offered for perusal to the MD involved?).

> >

>

> makes sense. however with all the meds susan's patient is on, I would not

> use herbs. A huge number of herbs reduce platelet stickiness, which is

> generally a good thing ( see http://.org/salvia.html ).

> Most have not been studied for their interaction with warfarin, but those

that

> have are diverse enought to give me pause (ren shen, da suan, dan shen,

> dang gui). While early treatment with in a controlled setting under the

> guidance of an MD who can monitor potential drug/herb interactions would

be

> ideal, that is still science fiction at this point. I don't want to start

an

> acupuncture thread here, but I would limit myself to that modality. FYI,

high

> dose enzymes and antioxidants in general have blood thinning properties,

> too.

>

> todd

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing

in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,

including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, <snakeoil.works@m...>

wrote:

 

>

> Another consideration is that, lacking the option to utilize it in the

> crisis phase, it might be considered safer as the graver aspect of injuries

> is resolved, other drug dose is reduced, and patient may use it to

> accelerate ultimate healing, with collusion of the primary md's, of course.

>

 

that's what I was thinking. and salvia works well for many prblems that cause

pain or numbness. it is a key ingredient in many modern research formulas

on the treatment of autoimmune diseases, especially those that involve pain.

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks for including the link in your text below. Interesting, but note the

lines i extracted from that text further on...

 

 

> makes sense. however with all the meds susan's patient is on, I would not

> use herbs. A huge number of herbs reduce platelet stickiness, which is

> generally a good thing ( see http://.org/salvia.html ).

> Most have not been studied for their interaction with warfarin, but those

that

> have are diverse enought to give me pause (ren shen, da suan, dan shen,

> dang gui). While early treatment with in a controlled setting under the

> guidance of an MD who can monitor potential drug/herb interactions would

be

> ideal, that is still science fiction at this point. I don't want to start

an

> acupuncture thread here, but I would limit myself to that modality. FYI,

high

> dose enzymes and antioxidants in general have blood thinning properties,

> too.

>

> todd

 

Quoting from the salvia article cited above:

>Unlike so many promising therapies, which cause dangerous side-effects,

salvia reduces platelet aggregation without causing the bleeding diatheses

seen in coumarin and heparin use. The safety and widespread applicability of

salvia, including its role as an antioxidant, give it ideal mass market

potential. <

 

So ok, it's still too risky eh? Frustrating. Another thought experiment:

suppose you yourself were the patient, knowing what you know. Would you

enlist the doc's aid in monitoring your bloods or modifying drug dosing so

that you could try salvia(and whatever else)?

 

And going down a little side road -- by an interesting coincidence,

yesterday i received the current pack of START mailings from ITM, with an

article by Subhuti, " Do Herbs, Vitamins, and Antioxidants Adversely Affect

Cancer Therapies? " A 14-page essay calling into question the issue raised in

the last 2 yrs by a couple of doctors (which quickly became a widely

disseminated view) who suggest a danger of use of these nutriceuticals

during chemo/rad Tx. Among other things, he cites studies showing improved

response to anticancer drugs with administration of " antioxidants " . This

article is not yet on the itmonline.org website, but certainly available

from ITM by order.

 

Sweet New Year,

ann

[Guest guest]

salvia seemed to be of great benefit to me. So the article maysimply be 'for our information'; pity we cannot apply it in some of the moredire circumstances as the case in point. ITM has salvia tablets, aconvenient way to supply it, alone or as adjunct to other herbals.>>>I have been using salvia and other herbs with patients on blood thinners for years. If close monitoring is done there is no problem. Usually you can reduce the meds.

alon

[Guest guest]

> >>>I have been using salvia and other herbs with patients on blood thinners

for years. If close monitoring is done there

> is no problem. Usually you can reduce the meds.

 

Alon - I have similar experience and concur on this.

 

Will Morris

[Guest guest]

thanks for this ...i just wanted to hear it said(well, see it read).

ann

 

salvia seemed to be of great benefit to me. So the article maysimply be 'for our information'; pity we cannot apply it in some of the moredire circumstances as the case in point. ITM has salvia tablets, aconvenient way to supply it, alone or as adjunct to other herbals.>>>I have been using salvia and other herbs with patients on blood thinners for years. If close monitoring is done there is no problem. Usually you can reduce the meds.

alon

[Guest guest]

Greetings,

I too would be very interested in the study that you cited, esp as I am beginning to tx. the young man who has sustained a spinal cord injury. Interesting case as the hospital will not allow me (as a licensend acupuncturist) to perform acupuncture inside the hospital, but the attending physician is all for it and is helping to find a place where it can happen. IN addition, as this young man has been quite nauseous when upright, thereby preventing progress in his rehabilitation, this physician is all for mild herbal formulas that could help. (Seems like such a switch.) I have tried Kang LIng wan with mild success, and now am trying Er Chen wan as he is also dizzy and there may be invisible phlegm blocking channels. (I have read that sometimes people who sustain this type of injury develop thick phelgm which blocks channels, impeding recovery to their mobility/use of musculoskeletal system. Qi stagnates, along with Bld, leading to Sp being unable to transform fluids, leading to build up of phlegm. . . What does anyone think about this?)

 

He is on blood thinners so I am quite limited in what I can give him. He is also having muscle spasms in his legs, so I have prescribed shao yao gan cao tang as it is mild and may help to reduce these and then hopefully another drug (baclaven) can be reduced/eliminated.

 

I appreciate all suggestions that have been given thus far and welcome any others, including links to research. Thanks.

 

Susan Froehlich, LAc

Hood RIver, OR