Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 Most of the folks I know who are really into the study of chinese are also lifelong musicians (mostly guitar). Is there a connection? Chinese Herbs " Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 , <@i...> wrote: > Most of the folks I know who are really into the study of chinese are also > lifelong musicians (mostly guitar). Is there a connection? > Interesting. I got my bachelor's in music theory and composition, now I teach CM theory. robert hayden fiddle, mandolin, etc (but not guitar) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 , " kampo36 <kampo36> " <kampo36> wrote: > , <@i...> > wrote: > > Most of the folks I know who are really into the study of chinese > are also > > lifelong musicians (mostly guitar). Is there a connection? > > > > Interesting. I got my bachelor's in music theory and composition, > now I teach CM theory. > > oh and I've done a fair amount of functional translation from Japanese and I'm working my way through wiseman's CM grammar book now.... also anxiously waiting for the arrival of my copy of Yakazu Doumei's introduction to gosei-ha kampo from japan.... rh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 Todd: I had to give up guitar in order to develop sensitivity for pulse diagnosis. Are you thinking that music as an aesthetic pursuit complements CM, or that the way the brain processes music helps in the study of CM? Jim Ramholz , <@i...> wrote: > Most of the folks I know who are really into the study of chinese are also lifelong musicians (mostly guitar). Is there a connection? > > > Chinese Herbs > > voice: > fax: > > " Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre > minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 Lonnie Jarrret plays guitar and he uses the side of his fingers for pulse diagnosis. I played jazz and funk drums for a living prior to this career among other instruments; had to gave up guitar and hand percussion for pulse diagnosis. But - synthesizers, flute and trap drums still work. Will : > > I had to give up guitar in order to develop sensitivity for pulse > diagnosis. > > Are you thinking that music as an aesthetic pursuit complements CM, > or that the way the brain processes music helps in the > study of CM? > > > Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 Well, Jimi Hendrix used to wear Mandarin silk jackets Seriously, I only play guitar now occasionally for fear of callouses. Like Will, I find I cannot play guitar and take pulses accurately. As a result, I've switched over more to keyboards, developing an impressionistic piano style. Relationship of Chinese medicine to music is clear. Creative types are attracted to this type of medicine. Language and music? I personally find language much more difficult than music, but music IS a language, is it not? On Monday, January 13, 2003, at 09:28 AM, wrote: > Most of the folks I know who are really into the study of chinese are > also lifelong musicians (mostly guitar). Is there a connection? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 , " " <zrosenbe@s...> wrote: > > Seriously, I only play guitar now occasionally for fear of callouses. > Like Will, I find I cannot play guitar and take pulses accurately. All the pulses begin to feel wiry... I stopped playing stringed instruments for fear of calluses for many years too; but it felt like a piece of myself was missing and so i have since adapted to accomodate both disciplines. Seems to me there are likely people in China who do external gongfu and plunge their hands into buckets of gravel and such and are still able to practice medicine. I may be wrong. I wonder if many of the people who study Chinese and music are readers of both. Functional translating for me feels not dissimilar to when I was analyzing Beethoven symphonies for chord structure, voicing, secondary key centers, themes, etc. Recognizing chord structure and inversions on the stave may use some of the same spatail and pattern recognition skills as Chinese characters (or bian zheng for that matter). Like Chinese, written music (especially vertical harmonic structures) looks dense and abstruse on the page until one begins to understand its composition and structure, and then becomes more intelligible as one becomes more familiar with the technical elements. Then, after awhile, one begins to see/hear/understand the thing (sounds, music, speech, expressions) the symbols represent. Certainly for spoken language there is an ear connection; one would think comprehension and pronunciation would be better if one has had aural training. Anyway, interesting topic. Robert Hayden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 , " James Ramholz < jramholz> " <jramholz> wrote: > > Are you thinking that music as an aesthetic pursuit complements CM, > or that the way the brain processes music helps in the study of CM? probably both. perhaps the same side of the brain that processes music (largely the right side) is also helpful in acquiring language in some way, especially a character based language. I never could learn an instrument, but I have been a hobby photographer since I was 11. My mind tends to work mathematically, not aestehtically, though I have heard there is some overlap between math and music (anyone remember godel, escher and bach. who wrote that again?). some people just don't gert math. some don't get language. it may be genetic or environmental, but by adulthood, the damage is done. Jason tells me that he studies chinese because it does NOT come easy to him. But you should see him play guitar ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 , <kampo36> wrote: > All the pulses begin to feel wiry... > I wonder if many of the people who study Chinese and music are > readers of both. Functional translating for me feels not dissimilar to when I was analyzing Beethoven symphonies for chord structure, voicing, secondary key centers, themes, etc. Recognizing chord structure and inversions on the stave may use some of the same > spacil and pattern recognition skills as Chinese characters (or bian zheng for that matter). Like Chinese, written music (especially vertical harmonic structures) looks dense and abstruse on the page until one begins to understand its composition and structure, and then becomes more intelligible as one becomes more familiar with the technical elements. Then, after awhile, one begins to see/hear/understand the thing (sounds, music, speech, expressions) the symbols represent. Your analogy is a good one. My teacher, who was also a muscian and played a variety of instruments, made the analogy to music early in our education. I suspect the greatest difficulty for students is to develop the ability to view a problem from a wider perspective and considered different theories simultaneously, yet still distinguish individual patterns. In a similar way you may listen to a symphony as a single work, yet pick out the different instruments and themes. Your analogy applies to pulse diagnosis as well. When examining pulses we can easily sense more (sometimes a cacophony of different qualities) than the rudimentary descriptions repeated in TCM literature. To continue your analogy, one can never completely mirror or exhaust the subject in writing---music, pulses, or CM in general. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 , " <@i...> " <@i...> wrote: perhaps the same side of the brain that processes music (largely the right side) is also helpful in acquiring language in some way, especially a character based language. : Wasn't it Piaget that first discussed how physical actions are a prelude to learning language. Many of the terms we use are based on physical activities---for example, when you understand or " get " something? We take pulses with only the left hand in order to help facilitate this connection to the right side of the brain for spacial and pattern recognition; as well as produce more sensitive physical connections in the fingers. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 Jazz, great parallels between jazz improvisation and medicine. Was listening to a little bit of Keith Jarrett Live at the Blue note last night. In fact I have an internet radio station where I stream jazz 24/7. For the time being a DSL/T1 or cable connection is best. I will be adding more streams including Latin Jazz for dialup users later this year. Here's the url if anyone is interested: " http://www.Ancientcityradio.com " Enjoy ) Fernando , WMorris116@A... wrote: > Lonnie Jarrret plays guitar and he uses the side of his fingers for pulse diagnosis. I played jazz and funk drums for a living prior to this career among other instruments; had to gave up guitar and hand percussion for pulse diagnosis. But - synthesizers, flute and trap drums still work. > > Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 Sorry to say, the only musical instruments I've mastered are the thigh-bone trumpet, damaru, cho-da, and bell. When I was the head cantor at our Tibetan Buddhist temple, many people had to stifle their smiles at my lack of musicality and tone. So, while I really like to listent to music, I can't really say that A) I know anything much about it or B) have any particular aptitude in that direction. What I love about Chinese is the logic it embodies and the access to so much clinically useful info. Bob , <@i...> wrote: > Most of the folks I know who are really into the study of chinese are also > lifelong musicians (mostly guitar). Is there a connection? > > > Chinese Herbs > > voice: > fax: > > " Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre > minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 On that same thread- I grew up in a health food store. I spent many pleasurable hours as a kid arranging and re-arranging the shelves of Granola, nuts, weighing spices and dried fruit, etc. This is the same feeling of satisfaction I get from playing w/ my herbs. They weren’t real until I put my hands on them. And from then on it was a love affair from which there is no turning back. Later I was in the restaurant biz as a chef. My fingers were so wrecked from burns that it took me years to develop any ability at all to feel textural differences in pulses. I still think I am somewhat compromised is this area. Cara, formerly banjo Well, Jimi Hendrix used to wear Mandarin silk jackets Seriously, I only play guitar now occasionally for fear of callouses. Like Will, I find I cannot play guitar and take pulses accurately. As a result, I've switched over more to keyboards, developing an impressionistic piano style. Relationship of Chinese medicine to music is clear. Creative types are attracted to this type of medicine. Language and music? I personally find language much more difficult than music, but music IS a language, is it not? On Monday, January 13, 2003, at 09:28 AM, wrote: > Most of the folks I know who are really into the study of chinese are > also lifelong musicians (mostly guitar). Is there a connection? > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 And how many visual artists are also CM practitioners? I have an MFA in painting and my first acupuncturist gave me Diane Connelly's book on Five Elements to read. This was my very first exposure to CM and I was so drawn to CM because it incorporated everything that I loved -- color and sound and taste, the natural world... Catherine Catherine Hemenway, L.Ac.Mirasol: Arizona Center forEating Disorder Recoverywww.mirasol.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2003 Report Share Posted January 13, 2003 , <@i...> wrote: > Most of the folks I know who are really into the study of chinese are also > lifelong musicians (mostly guitar). Is there a connection? > In traditional Chinese terms, the connection is known as qi4 Ÿƒ. We talk about such connections in chapters 3 and 4 of A Brief History of Qi. Confucius held that the gist of wisdom was contained in the Book of Songs which is his day was really a book of songs, i.e., musical compositions of which mainly the lyrics have survived. Music is an important thread that the Chinese have used to stitch together the cultural fabric in which we find traditional Chinese medicine to be such a prominent feature. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2003 Report Share Posted January 14, 2003 I studied traditional Chinese watercolor brush painting (and Wu style tai chi) with the Mr and Mrs Chow for 20 years. My favorite subjects are Kuan Yin and tigers. The creativity, visualization and taoist principles of composition all add to my skills of perception regarding the practice of TCM. Sherril Gold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2003 Report Share Posted January 14, 2003 An interesting and practical study of the relationship of music to CM can be found in ACUTONE by Dean Lloyd and John Pirog (available from Redwing). It looks into ancient Chinese musical theory and develops a practical method of using tuning forks on acupoints (with or without needles) to enhance classical treatments. Neal White PS By the way, I too have an MFA in art (primarily photographic; by the way, an online retrospective exhibition of my work is available at fixingshadows.org). I also played the five string banjo in my youth. ( An interesting corollary is the large number of photographic artists/musicians (e.g., pianists: Ansel Adams, Don Worth, Jack Welpott, & al). - dragon90405 <yulong Monday, January 13, 2003 8:35 PM Re: music and language , <@i...> wrote:> Most of the folks I know who are really into the study of chinese are also > lifelong musicians (mostly guitar). Is there a connection?>In traditional Chinese terms, the connectionis known as qi4 Ÿƒ. We talk about suchconnections in chapters 3 and 4 ofA Brief History of Qi.Confucius held that the gist of wisdomwas contained in the Book of Songswhich is his day was really a bookof songs, i.e., musical compositionsof which mainly the lyrics have survived.Music is an important thread that the Chinesehave used to stitch together the culturalfabric in which we find traditional Chinesemedicine to be such a prominent feature.KenChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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