Clique, clique, whose got the clique!

[Guest guest]

All,

 

> There is always a contingency that are intrested in learning to

> translate CM texts. But how fast has that contingency really grown

> over the last 5 years? I would guess only in proportion to the

> profession as a whole.

 

The number of people able to translate for publication has grown

considerably during the past five years. The number of actual translations

in print has grown and a topic - Chinese language learning - that was

nowhere mentioned even a year ago, has occupied this list again and again.

Any translator to student populations ratio would be useless as a

comparison, because the number of translators was recently so small. Yet if

only a fraction of the people who buy Wiseman's " Chinese Medical Chinese "

or Flaws' " Teach Yourself to Read Chinese " are actually trying to learn

Chinese, the numbers of learners is in the hundreds and on the rise.

 

may want to set up a poll for the CHA, but one poll is always

> active: the number of schools that offer Chinese language classes as part

[ . . .]

> Your interest seems to want to make Chinese langauge compulsory in

> school. So, the question becomes: out of the total number of

> schools, how many already make Chinese langauge classes compulsory?

> How many offer it as a elective?

 

What would that " poll " mean? The question of whether it is useful for a

clinician to know Chinese is entirely different than whether or not the

teaching of Chinese in CM schools is a viable enterprise. It is also different

from the question of whether any particular clinician would be better off or

more successful knowing Chinese. It is correct to say that none have

demonstrated a classroom-based program that is broadly perceived as

useful (which is what " sales " tell you). However, that is not a measure of its

value; it is a measure of whether we know how it should be done.

 

This profession is still a work in progress and (unless you are a merchant)

there's no sense in evaluating ideas by whether or not they have found a

place in the status quo. In 1979 I took an experienced herbal teacher to

several acupuncture schools and got " herbs will be taught over my dead

body " replies. Shortly thereafter people were talking about how useless

TCM acupuncture was without herbs. Everyone (my age) has stories like

this. We need to be humble about what we have accomplished so we can be

open to changing views and circumstances.

 

> I think your viewpoint about access is exaggerated. After all, many

> books were translated before Wiseman; and don't forget that we have

> always had access through native Chinese teachers for many years---

> who, in turn, have access to the entire corpus of CM literature.

 

So? Other than technical matters like the degree of polysemy in Chinese,

etc., what Wiseman's work has shown is that there are people who want to

use dictionaries and standards in translation, and that there are people who

want to read their work. The fact that there are other ways to get

information increases the value of all means because it provides cross-

checks. A healthy field has multiple accesses to everything.

 

It skews the argument to make what students think overly significant.

Students are the market easiest to reach and nobody doubts that student

textbooks are lucrative but there is a lot more to a professional literature

than schoolbooks. Student's opinions of what it is important don't survive

their first practice year and we are just starting a doctoral program that

nobody thought necessary not so long ago. I have never met a newbie

programmer who thought it was important to acquire a library of reference

books and sample code in a variety of languages. I have never met an

experienced programmer who did not have such a library.

 

It seems to me that the main point is making the benefits/difficulties of

learning Chinese well enough known so that people can make informed

decisions.

 

> So, the notion of a lack of access to the entire body of CM

> literature may be a red herring.

 

What is the " entire body of CM literature " in your opinion? What does it

include? What of the thousands of texts that the top two or three PRC

Chinese publishers print every year do you suppose to be worthy of

translation?

 

I do not doubt that there is a body of knowledge that can be taught in

English that is sufficient for people to undertake a private clinical practice

and succeed. I don't doubt that successful clinicians can be taught by

people speaking Chinglish. But, these are different matters than whether

access to Chinese language information is worthwhile.

 

Not everyone in any profession knows everything about that profession,

inter- and intra-disciplinary expertise is the rule not the exception. The

fact that any given clinician's skills may not benefit from knowing what the

Chinese have to say in their recent publications is not the same as not

needing access.

 

> While some standardization is necessary to provide consistancy to

> the plethora of concepts and historical voices of CM, some of

> Wiseman's choices for translation clearly inhibit and may ultimately limit

> support for it---even among those of us who (want to) translate. Questions

> of translation may be only deemed resolved inside the clique of Wiseman

> supporters.

 

Again, so? Some of Wiseman's choices are why people support it. The point

of establishing a library of books produced to consistent standards is that a

library of books produced to consistent standards is useful to many people.

Not everyone, of course, but way more than enough to support the activity.

Questions of translation have to be decided by every translator whether

they work alone or in a group, and people need to be informed of how those

questions were answered whether by Chinese or Americans, English- or

Chinese-speaking, alone or in " the clique. " The important point is whether

or not the rationale is public so that people can make informed choices.

 

> I see my role not as an antagonist, but as a member of the loyal

> opposition, because we both want many of the same things for

> ourselves and this profession.

 

I don't doubt it. I have a great attachment to opposition because it gives

me such a wonderful excuse to express my opinions.

 

Bob

 

 

 

bob Paradigm Publications

www.paradigm-pubs.com 44 Linden Street

Robert L. Felt Brookline MA 02445

617-738-4664

 

 

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