Guest guest Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 I am looking at a new copy of Pharmacology of Herbs, 2nd Ed. by Kee Chang Huang, a pharmacologist who was trained in medicine in China before the communist era. Kee is also Phd physiologist. He is now 86 years old and he is clearly an openminded skeptic. He feels that much chinese research is flawed, thus he has been selective in what claims he makes for many herbs. His source material for pharmacological data is mostly chinese including chinese articles by hong yen hsu prior to OHAI. The american sources for this data are all from Hong Yen Hsu's work on pharmacology, which hsu translated directly from taiwanese, japanese and chinese source. There was no source material used that was on the topic of uses of western herbs. At first I was disappointed that the entries on many herbs were so brief, but now I realize his purpose is to present what he believes to be reasonably documented. Which actually makes this book much more valuable than one that includes citations uncritically. The best pharmacological research to do in this country would be to duplicate chinese studies that are successful to see if they can be reproduced in american labs. with that in mind, I found kee's entry on da huang interesting. by the way, one of the major flaws in this book is the use of pinyin naming for herbs. da huang is listed as tai huang and a number of other common herbs are listed with names that are similar but not the same as the ones in bensky. Is tai huang an alternate name or is this a mistake. The character appears to be the same in both texts (the one I learned as da that means big) and the herb is definitively identified by its botanical name and chemistry. He states under actions: " small doses of tai huang (.03 - .3 g) can cause constipation, because of its tannic acid which exerts an astringent effect on the mucosa. (my note: I believe that dose is smaller than anyone said they had been using in decoction) " Later, under therapeutic uses, he writes, " It is also used in small doses to treat diarrhea, indigestion... " As I said, this description of uses and actions of da huang appears to have been derived wholly from chinese sources, not other more " suspect " herbal traditions. Make of it what you will. :-) Chinese Herbs " Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 The character large (da4) can also be pronounced dai3. Therefore, some Chinese refer to Dai Huang and not Da Huang. If you look in The Pinyin Chinese-English Dictionary, Dai Huang is Rhubarb, not Da Huang. Nevertheless, whether one says Dai Huang or Da Huang seems in my experience to be a matter of locale. All my teachers in Shanghai said Da Huang, not Dai Huang. Yet Yang Shou-zhong from Tangshan, Hebei swears its Dai Huang and not Da Huang. Bob , <@i...> wrote: > I am looking at a new copy of Pharmacology of Herbs, 2nd Ed. by Kee Chang > Huang, a pharmacologist who was trained in medicine in China before the > communist era. Kee is also Phd physiologist. He is now 86 years old and > he is clearly an openminded skeptic. He feels that much chinese research > is flawed, thus he has been selective in what claims he makes for many > herbs. His source material for pharmacological data is mostly chinese > including chinese articles by hong yen hsu prior to OHAI. The american > sources for this data are all from Hong Yen Hsu's work on pharmacology, > which hsu translated directly from taiwanese, japanese and chinese source. > There was no source material used that was on the topic of uses of > western herbs. > > At first I was disappointed that the entries on many herbs were so brief, > but now I realize his purpose is to present what he believes to be > reasonably documented. Which actually makes this book much more valuable > than one that includes citations uncritically. The best pharmacological > research to do in this country would be to duplicate chinese studies that > are successful to see if they can be reproduced in american labs. > > with that in mind, I found kee's entry on da huang interesting. by the > way, one of the major flaws in this book is the use of pinyin naming for > herbs. da huang is listed as tai huang and a number of other common herbs > are listed with names that are similar but not the same as the ones in > bensky. Is tai huang an alternate name or is this a mistake. The > character appears to be the same in both texts (the one I learned as da > that means big) and the herb is definitively identified by its botanical > name and chemistry. He states under actions: " small doses of tai huang > (.03 - .3 g) can cause constipation, because of its tannic acid which > exerts an astringent effect on the mucosa. (my note: I believe that dose > is smaller than anyone said they had been using in decoction) " Later, > under therapeutic uses, he writes, " It is also used in small doses to > treat diarrhea, indigestion... " As I said, this description of uses and > actions of da huang appears to have been derived wholly from chinese > sources, not other more " suspect " herbal traditions. > > Make of it what you will. :-) > > > Chinese Herbs > > voice: > fax: > > " Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre > minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2003 Report Share Posted January 24, 2003 Todd and Bob, " Da " in Cantonese is pronounced as " Dai " . They are all for rhubarb. Dan Wen , " Bob Flaws <pemachophel2001> " <pemachophel2001> wrote: > > > The character large (da4) can also be pronounced dai3. Therefore, some > Chinese refer to Dai Huang and not Da Huang. If you look in The Pinyin > Chinese-English Dictionary, Dai Huang is Rhubarb, not Da Huang. > Nevertheless, whether one says Dai Huang or Da Huang seems in my > experience to be a matter of locale. All my teachers in Shanghai said > Da Huang, not Dai Huang. Yet Yang Shou-zhong from Tangshan, Hebei > swears its Dai Huang and not Da Huang. > > Bob > > , <@i...> > wrote: > > I am looking at a new copy of Pharmacology of Herbs, 2nd Ed. by Kee > Chang > > Huang, a pharmacologist who was trained in medicine in China before > the > > communist era. Kee is also Phd physiologist. He is now 86 years > old and > > he is clearly an openminded skeptic. He feels that much chinese > research > > is flawed, thus he has been selective in what claims he makes for > many > > herbs. His source material for pharmacological data is mostly > chinese > > including chinese articles by hong yen hsu prior to OHAI. The > american > > sources for this data are all from Hong Yen Hsu's work on > pharmacology, > > which hsu translated directly from taiwanese, japanese and chinese > source. > > There was no source material used that was on the topic of uses > of > > western herbs. > > > > At first I was disappointed that the entries on many herbs were so > brief, > > but now I realize his purpose is to present what he believes to be > > reasonably documented. Which actually makes this book much more > valuable > > than one that includes citations uncritically. The best > pharmacological > > research to do in this country would be to duplicate chinese studies > that > > are successful to see if they can be reproduced in american labs. > > > > with that in mind, I found kee's entry on da huang interesting. by > the > > way, one of the major flaws in this book is the use of pinyin naming > for > > herbs. da huang is listed as tai huang and a number of other common > herbs > > are listed with names that are similar but not the same as the ones > in > > bensky. Is tai huang an alternate name or is this a mistake. The > > character appears to be the same in both texts (the one I learned as > da > > that means big) and the herb is definitively identified by its > botanical > > name and chemistry. He states under actions: " small doses of tai > huang > > (.03 - .3 g) can cause constipation, because of its tannic acid > which > > exerts an astringent effect on the mucosa. (my note: I believe that > dose > > is smaller than anyone said they had been using in decoction) " > Later, > > under therapeutic uses, he writes, " It is also used in small doses > to > > treat diarrhea, indigestion... " As I said, this description of uses > and > > actions of da huang appears to have been derived wholly from chinese > > sources, not other more " suspect " herbal traditions. > > > > Make of it what you will. :-) > > > > > > Chinese Herbs > > > > voice: > > fax: > > > > " Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre > > minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 , " honsousa <info@h...> " < info@h...> wrote: and Bob, > > " Da " in Cantonese is pronounced as " Dai " . They are all for rhubarb. OK, I get the da/dai thing. but what about tai huang. is tai a mistake? like writing tao instead of dao in pinyin. sort of an accidental wade-giles overlap, perhaps. todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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