A Comprehensive Database on TCM?

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

IMO those who recognise the value of understanding the basic

terms, definitions and relationships of Chinese terminology in

TCM/AP need access to a comprehensive database on CD- or

Hard-Drive.

 

A Web-based database would be fine in countries like USA, where

access to the WWW is fast, easy and cheap. However, it is

preferable to have the same data on CD- or Hard-Drive in countries

where WWW access is difficult, slow or expensive.

 

What basic data should the database include? IMO, each term

needs coverage of the following data:

(a) Chinese Characters (and their variants);

(b) Pinyin equivalents, with and without accents, and with and

without spaces. This may seem tedious but IMO it is important for

practical use. For example, if users need to check the data against

other sources (such as the WWW), they need to copy the relevant

strings for recycling in Search Engines. The use of “or” statements

between similar terms is critical in finding data via Search Engines

because external data available to the engines may be presented

with or without accents, and with or without spaces (for example,

san-yin-jiao or sanyinjiao);

© Wade-Gilles equivalents, as above, because many useful

WWW sources use these and not Pinyin;

(d) Literal translation, with words sequenced exactly as in the

Pinyin. This to help those who want to learn some Chinese

terminology informally “by osmosis” (Examples: san yin jiao =

three yins crossing; ba du hua fu sheng ji yao = pull poison resolve

spoiled freshen muscle hbs; hua tan zhi ke ping chuan yao = move

phlegm ease cough soothe asthma hbs)

(d) Translations in common usage, as in the more widely used

texts, such as by Wiseman et al, Deadman, Bensky, Flaws, etc

(e) Notes on the definition and its relationships with other terms

 

Many other related data could be included, but, IMO, the above are

crucial.

 

Problems: As others have said, huge problems must be overcome

before such databases can be written and released. No reputable

publisher will commit to develop such a system without permission

from the authors whose material they wish to use. Who are the

“real” authors of the copyrighted materials? Does a publisher also

need permission from the Chinese authors, AND THEIR sources,

from whom the more recent authors have collected their material?

 

Also, as Bob Felt has said, the software needed to translate and

display Chinese Characters is problematic and very expensive.

But, IMO the greatest crux is that publishers are wary of releasing

copyable digital material because this is a very real threat to the

financial security of the company, which is based mainly on BOOK

sales.

 

Recent advances in digital copyright protection are also

problematic for USERS. From the viewpoint of a practical user of

IT, a database that CANNOT be edited is almost useless. The

whole idea is to be able to find, grab, amend/edit, copy/paste and

otherwise manipulate the data as one may need to do. Thus

publishers of digitally-protected read-only material that CANNOT be

edited/copied may find poor uptake (sales to users) of such

material.

 

In summary, development of such USER-editable databases would

be of enormous value to the USERS and their patients; it would be

the MAIN means by which practical knowledge and usage of TCM

would explode internationally.

 

Lack of diagnostic and therapeutic knowledge in the highly

complex field of TCM is the main reason that hinders its

development in the West. The public wants omplementary

treatment; I dislike the use of the word " alternative " in that context.

To meet that demand, and to improve their own clinical results, if

they could have quick and easy access to the basic data in digital

form, many conventionally-trained western professionals would

study TCM formally and/or informally over time to gain the

necessary knowledge.

 

I know that many (if not most) highly trained TCM practitioners

abhor the idea of “outsiders” undertaking “quickie” or informal

training in TCM. For that reason, they may not want “their” hard-

won knowledge packaged in a quick and easy format for “outsiders”

to use (or abuse?). I do not want to side-track into a debate on

this. However, I would argue that the most deeply trained Master or

Mistress (does one also use that term?) in TCM could benefit

greatly from a comprehensive database on that area.

 

Later, after the basics have been made available, a publisher, with

philanthropic funding from the filthy-rich, might undertake to develop

a database with all the practical knowledge available on TCM,

including the Syndromes and their key S & Ss, a differential Dx

package based on that, treatment options based on that, herbal

actions/interactions, indications, dosages, contraindications,

formulas and their usage, etc. This sounds like science fiction, or

“Mr. Spock”-ish. But TCM databases, albeit not as comprehensive

as I would wish, are available today on CD.

 

If history has taught us anything it is that: “whatever is possible

WILL be done, … sometime”. And it is possible to do this in great

depth if the will and the funding can be found to do it. Why not start

now? Any takers?

 

Best regards,

Phil

 

PS: Many thanks to those of you who wrote kind words to me off-

list yesterday. I really appreciate it.

 

Best regards,

 

 

WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

WWW :

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

[Guest guest]

Hi All & Hi Ann,

 

Re the idea of a comprehensive TCM database, I had written:

> (Examples: san yin jiao = three yins crossing; ba du HUA FU sheng

> ji yao = pull poison resolve spoiled freshen muscle hbs; HUA TAN

> zhi ke ping chuan yao = move phlegm ease cough soothe asthma hbs)

 

Ann replied [off-list]

> Hi Phil, ... nitpicking [a little] ... The use of the term HUA

> translated above as " resolve " and " move " respectively. Is this the

> same HUA? ie. transform. Thus, how come not use the term

> " transform " ? Especially as we are looking for " standard " but

> effective correlates, and " transform " seems to fit the bill.

 

Ann, thank you for raising the hare for me to chase! I will reply via

the list to invite further comment.

 

I am a total novice in Chinese. I have picked up a few terms " by

osmosis " from the WWW, IVAS/BeVAS (Belgium) TCM Herbal

course, other courses & textbooks like Wiseman & Ye (Practical

Dictionary of CM). However, I have no formal training in Chinese.

 

From multiple sorces and for several years, I have been building a

personal CM Materia Medica database. It will take 5-7 years

(maybe more) to finish it.

 

Early on, I realised that there is no agreed standard terminology of

TCM in English. Different sources used different terms [in English]

to describe what [for me] is essentially the same concept. For

example, depending on the source, the effect of fuling-poria cocos

on water is described as: Diuretic, Expel Water, Drain Water,

Release Water, etc.

 

Because I cannot read Chinese, and checking non-digital sources

in the Chinese script, character by character, is so slow and time-

consuming, I decided to convert similar terms into my own

terminology as best I could. I knew full well that this might

introduce minor errors that a Chinese expert would easily

differentiate. But, for practical computer work, I wanted to use

compact English terms, where possible, and standardise the

language, where possible. Without a " standard language " , it

becomes quite difficult to effectively search a database.

 

For example, depending on the source, Fei Xu can be rendered in

English as " deficiency of the lungs " , " weak lungs " , " lung

weakness " , lung deficiency " , lung qi deficient, etc, etc. For my

purposes, I use the term LU Xu (as LU is the common alpha code

for lung in the Channel sequence: LU-LI-ST-SP-HT-SI-BL-KI-PC-TH-

GB-LV)

 

As to your translation of hua (as in hua gan, hua tan, hua shui, hua

zheng), you are indeed correct according to Wiseman, who usually

translates it as transform, transforming or transformation. I could

not find " hua fu " in Wiseman but used the translation given in the

WWW source for it.

 

However, transformation to me implies softening, dispersal,

resolution; all of these imply change or movement, so I use the

short term hua Tan = Move Phlegm.

 

One might ask, why not use the shorter term Hua Tan itself? Well

I want others to make some sense of my data also. Unless others

know Chinese, Hua Tan would be gobbledygook to them. For those

who really KNOW Chinese, hua tan is also gobbledygook without

the proper accentuation! As you know sume pinyin words have

several different meanings depending on the accents used to reflect

the several different ideograms.

 

This is precisely why, IMO, we need access ASAP to a

comprehensive, easily accessible database of TCM terminology,

preferably using terms that have broad international agreement in

the profession. Failing that, the various common English usages

should be cross-referenced back to pinyin AND to the original

ideograms!

 

>:Is FU turbidity in this context, as given as one of the meanings in

the PD?

 

Wiseman has several entries for FU, one of which is putrefaction. I

would imagine hua fu (resolve spoiled) to mean

Transform/Resolve/Move Sepsis. [i have difficulty grasping the

several meanings in my sources for " Turbidity].

 

But I leave that to the experts; the sooner that I can get access to

an authoritative database the better! When that happens, I will

abort my own attempt at building one, or adapt and merge " my

data " into it.

 

I would love to be able to read Chinese in its original characters but

the time and effort to reach that state would divert me from studies

of higher priority for me!

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

WWW :

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]