Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 List: As a SIOM grad (class #5, about 18 months ago), it's been really interesting to read this discussion of my lovely alma mater. I don't know if i have much more to add to it, other than to second what Craig said about the non-transerablity of the SIOM model to a program with larger class sizes, and to opine that SIOM's program is designed to be much more rigorous than the majority of CM programs in this country. I don't know how " good " SIOM graduates are compared to the products of other schools, but i do know that i very much appreciate my education and i continue to study Chinese as a post-graduate. --Chris Message: 3 Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:04:40 -0500 Rory Kerr <rorykerr Re: Should TCM students/practitioners try to become fluent in Chinese? At 7:26 AM +0000 1/29/03, < wrote: > , " Bob Flaws < >pemachophel2001> " <pemachophel2001> wrote: >Due to their innovative educational >> model, they are able to teach BOTH herbs and formulas in 6 credit >> hours as opposed to many schools taking 9 credit hours apiece (for a >> total of 18 credit hours). This means that they do not have to >> sacrifice anything to incorporate Chinese into their curriculum as a >> requirement. > >Bob > >Very interesting. the current model of education is definitely >inefficient. but I >wonder if the one you describe could sustain a larger sized class. More >students asking questions demands more time. My herbs class this semester >is 35 students in one section, 25 in another. I know SIOM also require some >chinese as a prereq. do you know what level of ability in chinese they shoot >for? Translation level skills? ------- I wonder if the SIOM students have the same exposure to the broad range of herbs and formulas the students get in the more standard programs. If they are problem solving, then their studies of the herbs and formula may be more focused and efficient, but within a smaller range of possibilities. Not that I'm arguing against that approach, but it does also rely on a good deal more self motivated study than many students demonstrate. Perhaps SIOM is able to do what it does because because it is highly selective, and the students who choose to go there are a special self-selecting and very small subgroup. So could the SIOM model be successfully applied at colleges that accept students with less college background, and lower gpa's? Could you successfully apply such a program to the cohort of students that is currently enrolled in CM programs around the US? To say nothing about the profit motive of the colleges.... Rory -- Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 At 12:33 AM -0800 1/31/03, chris flan' wrote: >SIOM's program is designed to be much more rigorous >than the majority of CM programs in this country. -- Chris, thanks for giving a SIOM grad's perspective. In what way do you think the SIOM program is much more rigorous? Also, it was stated that at SIOM you do 6 credits of materia medica & formula studies combined, versus 18 credits in more conventional programs. Given that you cannot possibly cover the same amount of material in 90 hours as you can in 270 hours, how does the SIOM program deal with the material? Are SIOM students actually responsible for ~400 medicinals, and 180 formulas within these 6 credits? Thanks. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Chris, Not to put you on the spot...too much... but can you describe how your study of Chinese aids and benefits your study, understanding and application of Chinese medical theories? Thanks, Ken , chris flan' <cflan8860> wrote: > List: > > As a SIOM grad (class #5, about 18 months ago), it's > been really interesting to read this discussion of my > lovely alma mater. I don't know if i have much more > to add to it, other than to second what Craig said > about the non-transerablity of the SIOM model to a > program with larger class sizes, and to opine that > SIOM's program is designed to be much more rigorous > than the majority of CM programs in this country. > > I don't know how " good " SIOM graduates are compared to > the products of other schools, but i do know that i > very much appreciate my education and i continue to > study Chinese as a post-graduate. > > --Chris > > > Message: 3 > Wed, 29 Jan 2003 09:04:40 -0500 > Rory Kerr <rorykerr@w...> > Re: Should TCM students/practitioners try to > become fluent in > Chinese? > > At 7:26 AM +0000 1/29/03, > <@i...> wrote: > > , " Bob Flaws > < > >pemachophel2001> " <pemachophel2001> wrote: > >Due to their innovative educational > >> model, they are able to teach BOTH herbs and > formulas in 6 credit > >> hours as opposed to many schools taking 9 credit > hours apiece (for > a > >> total of 18 credit hours). This means that they do > not have to > >> sacrifice anything to incorporate Chinese into > their curriculum as > a > >> requirement. > > > >Bob > > > >Very interesting. the current model of education is > definitely > >inefficient. but I > >wonder if the one you describe could sustain a larger > sized class. > More > >students asking questions demands more time. My > herbs class this > semester > >is 35 students in one section, 25 in another. I know > SIOM also > require some > >chinese as a prereq. do you know what level of > ability in chinese > they shoot > >for? Translation level skills? > ------- > > I wonder if the SIOM students have the same exposure > to the broad > range of herbs and formulas the students get in the > more standard > programs. If they are problem solving, then their > studies of the > herbs and formula may be more focused and efficient, > but within a > smaller range of possibilities. Not that I'm arguing > against that > approach, but it does also rely on a good deal more > self motivated > study than many students demonstrate. Perhaps SIOM is > able to do what > it does because because it is highly selective, and > the students who > choose to go there are a special self-selecting and > very small > subgroup. > > So could the SIOM model be successfully applied at > colleges that > accept students with less college background, and > lower gpa's? Could > you successfully apply such a program to the cohort of > students that > is currently enrolled in CM programs around the US? > > To say nothing about the profit motive of the > colleges.... > > Rory > -- > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 , Rory Kerr <rorykerr@w...> wrote: Are SIOM students actually > responsible for ~400 medicinals, and 180 formulas within these 6 > credits? > I was wondering the same thing and if so, do they study much of the rote material completely on their own. the idea that if you teach a person to fish, you don't have to give them fish certainly applies here. this is what allows the time to study chinese every semester. I think it is a viable model for self motivated students. However, I am still having trouble understanding how one uses the problem solving method in materia medica classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 However, I am still having trouble understanding how > one uses the problem solving method in materia medica classes. > can you explain what you mean by " the problem solving method " , and are you having trouble understanding just how the SIOM teachers do it, or all teachers? Why is it harder to understand in materia medica classes (than which others?)? Thanks. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2003 Report Share Posted February 1, 2003 , Julie Chambers <info@j...> wrote: > can you explain what you mean by " the problem solving method " , and are > you having trouble understanding just how the SIOM teachers do it, or all > teachers? Why is it harder to understand in materia medica classes (than > which others?)? Teaching based upon problem solving is the standard in adult education in many fields of learning. In medicine, the problem is the sick patient, so the teaching begins with a case to illustrate the objectives of the course. This is quite effective when teaching internal medicine because problem solving requires that one has tools with which to solve the problem. By the time one studies internal medicine, one has already learned the " tools " of basic theory, materia medica and formulas. so rather than just learning the treatment of disease in a rote fashion, one can instead do it in a dynamic interactive way. For example, if the topic is the treatment of headache, students prepare for the class by reading background information about the topic and prepping to participate in a group discussion on several cases during lecture. The treatment of headaches is thus presented in the context of the problem, which is the case. This is in contrast to merely lecturing to the class on diseases and patterns in a rote fashion. So one learns by " solving the problem " , not just memorizing the formulas. I have a hard time understanding how one would apply this method in herbs 1, for example, because one does not yet have many of the " tools " necessary to solve a case. And, arguably, the accumulation of data is most essential at this phase, moreso than the development of process and methodology. It would appear SIOM has found a solution to this dilemma and I am curious what that is. But I suspect I would have to see it to understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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