Guest guest Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 Group, I have a seemingly interesting case. I have a patient that has a basal bod= y temp of 94.7-97.3. Her MD confirmed 94.7 at her last appointment; and yes= terday when I saw her, her temp was also this low. The interesting thing is = that her pattern is,,,, Liver Qi depression, leading to constrained heat. S= he fits the Si ni san pattern quite well, red tongue, with many red prickles= , cold fingers (only), her abdomen is quite hot to the touch, and occasional= bitter taste in the mouth. As an underlying pattern or co-existing one, th= ere is blood vacuity (long-term scanty menses- last period was 1 day long). = What I am trying to do is make sense of this body temp information. Since cl= assically thermometers did not exist, we can treat what we see- ignoring thi= s temp, but I am sure that in China and maybe here someone has started to in= corporate this type of data into a modern framework. Does anyone have a ref= erence (Chinese or English) for any discussions on such a topic. And have = others seen this and how did you make sense of it? Quite simply from a west= ern perspective, how can someone present chronic clear heat signs with such = a low temp. I have heard that when someone has a fever that there core body= temp is actually low, but I still don't understand this because the thermom= eter is showing a fever. Input would be much appreciated…. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 , " < @h...> " <@h...> wrote: Since cl= > assically thermometers did not exist, we can treat what we see- ignoring thi= > s temp, but I am sure that in China and maybe here someone has started to in= > corporate this type of data into a modern framework. the thing that would concern me is that chai hu has a fairly potent fever lowering effect. I wonder if si ni san is ever used for hypothyroid conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 Simon Mills talks about the difference between body temperature and body thermostat. The thermostat being the temp that a person perceives themselves to be. You don’t mention what temp she perceives herself to be. Is she in a tee shirt? Extra sweaters? fever and perceived body temp: if a person feels cold- the body thermostat will drive the temp up . If they feel hot, the thermostat will bring the temp down . If the person feels even, then they are stabile. Cara Group, I have a seemingly interesting case. I have a patient that has a basal bod= y temp of 94.7-97.3. Her MD confirmed 94.7 at her last appointment; and yes= terday when I saw her, her temp was also this low. The interesting thing is = that her pattern is,,,, Liver Qi depression, leading to constrained heat. S= he fits the Si ni san pattern quite well, red tongue, with many red prickles= , cold fingers (only), her abdomen is quite hot to the touch, and occasional= bitter taste in the mouth. As an underlying pattern or co-existing one, th= ere is blood vacuity (long-term scanty menses- last period was 1 day long). = What I am trying to do is make sense of this body temp information. Since cl= assically thermometers did not exist, we can treat what we see- ignoring thi= s temp, but I am sure that in China and maybe here someone has started to in= corporate this type of data into a modern framework. Does anyone have a ref= erence (Chinese or English) for any discussions on such a topic. And have = others seen this and how did you make sense of it? Quite simply from a west= ern perspective, how can someone present chronic clear heat signs with such = a low temp. I have heard that when someone has a fever that there core body= temp is actually low, but I still don't understand this because the thermom= eter is showing a fever. Input would be much appreciated?. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 Hi, Jason. Just a thought. If we look at Si Ni San indications, we have cold extremeties due to Yang Jue or heat clumping or Qi stagnation in the abdomen. What that creates is the inability for the Yang Qi to spread out to the extremeties, why couldn't that also include a lack of Yang Qi or warmth in the mouth where the temperature is presumably being taken? Might be interesting to check her armpit or anus for their temperatures too... -al. " " wrote: > > Group, > > I have a seemingly interesting case. I have a patient that has a basal bod= > > y temp of 94.7-97.3. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 Al, Thanx for the input... This is a possible idea, I previously told her to start taking her temperture under her arm. IS (under the arm) standard for basal body temp? I will have to think more about this one.. -JAson why couldn't that also include a lack of Yang Qi or warmth > in the mouth where the temperature is presumably being taken? > > Might be interesting to check her armpit or anus for their temperatures too... > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 > the thing that would concern me is that chai hu has a fairly potent fever > lowering effect. I wonder if si ni san is ever used for hypothyroid conditions? > THis is a good point. and this gets back to my last unanswered question. What alternative ways do people approach a constained liver heat pattern without using chaihu/ sinisan.?? Herbs like mu dan pi will release constrained heat, but the chai hu / zhi shi seems to be essential for the dynamic. MAybe qing hao/ zhi shi will work similiarly. But I also wonder if chai hu, being good for high fevers, will actually lower someone's body temp if it is already low..? (I think that is your idea)... Just like a tylonol (I don't think) will lower someone's body temp without a fever.. (or does it)? -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 I wonder if si ni san is ever used for hypothyroid conditions? > THis is what actually spawned my previous sinisan post a few weeks ago. I had a hypothryoid patient, that had red tongue, fast pulse, cold fingers & toes, very anxious & emotional. and I actually gave her a sinisan with mods... Her s/s improved, but I do not know about the TSH etc. I will call her today and find out more... -JAson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 , Cara Frank <herbbabe@e...> wrote= : > Simon Mills talks about the difference between body temperature and body > thermostat. The thermostat being the temp that a person perceives themsel= ves > to be. You don¹t mention what temp she perceives herself to be. Is she in= a > tee shirt? Extra sweaters? Cara, She perceives herself as normal to warm. SHe never is wearing excessive am= ount of clothes. > > fever and perceived body temp: if a person feels cold- the body thermost= at > will drive the temp up . If they feel hot, the thermostat will bring the > temp down . If the person feels even, then they are stabile. Could you explain a little more, It just seems that this is explaining that= the body likes a homestatic state, always reaching for the mean. BUt, in t= he clinic people constatly percieve themselves as Hot, or COld. (This is the= ir Body thermostat, correct?) what does this say about their body temperature, or is there some correlati= on. I am unclear what the above means.. THanx, -JAson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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