Guest guest Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 At 6:13 PM +0000 2/3/03, James Ramholz <jramholz wrote: >The SHL theory seems to apply better when the person is well >balanced when the initial injury happens. The Suwen cycle locates >them on a rollercoaster over the course of the year. -- Jim, I find the ideas in your post quite fascinating, and I have long wondered how to make good use of them in a medical practice. As you point out, the main problem is the number of variables, so that the diagnostic process has to include: the theoretical extrinsic influences of the cycles the actual extrinsic influences, as they occur the intrinsic influence of the cycles, based on birth the effects of the lived life on the constitution of the patient the possible effects of happenstance and accident the current circumstances of the patient's life the actual presentation of the patient's illness etc In considering all these, the chronobiology seems to be only a small part of the picture. Although I certainly treat colds and flu's, they are a rather small percentage of my practice, and when I'm faced with them, it's not too hard to simply use a standard diagnostic methods and pattern id to come up with a good treatment. Where I see the chronobiology possibly adding more insight is in understanding the progress of deeper chronic and more resistant diseases. Do you know of any modern sources that get into this subject in depth? Rory ======================== At 6:13 PM +0000 2/3/03, James Ramholz <jramholz wrote: > , " " ><zrosenbe@s...> wrote: >> The chapters you are referring to, Jim, are based on the >> chronobiological theories such as five movements and six qi, >> specifically in this chapter calendrical calculations using the >five phases to predict specifically epidemic and disease patterns. >These methods are hardly easy to understand, and there is some >controversy as to accuracy after so many centuries as to the >particular method. I would love to see further development and >studies done on this area. >> Donn Hayes and myself for some time compared notes on weather >changes, host and guest qi of a particular year as influencing >epidemics of influenza while I was in Colorado many years ago. I am >still always watching the influence of weather changes (as subtle as >they may be in southern California). > > >Z'ev: > >They can easily be observed and confirmed if you look at things from >the 5-Phases perspective regularly---but very few do (and it's not >the Worsely material). What makes the Suwen cycles more difficult to >observe is that they take place over the course of the entire year; >they aren't immediate reactions to conditions. Every several years, >I change my cold/flu formula to conform with these changes. > >For example, the stem and branch for 2002 were Yang Water and Horse >(Shaoyin). So there is conflict between water and fire phases. The >primary energy of the year is Fire (secondary is Yangming dryness) >which attacks metal (lungs) during the first half of the year. It >dries up yin fluids and makes the body produce more mucus to >balance. The water excessiveness of the stem adds its own kind of >dampness. That's why we alternately see several mixed types of >coughing (productive alternately dry, raspy) in the same person. >During late August 2002, these types of coughs were already becoming >more common and apparent. > >Then, the autumnal changes help move the ambient energy of the body >deeper---the pulses are no longer floating due to summer heat. So >the vitality going deeper and the accumulated dampness and phlegm in >the lungs act like two weather fronts confronting each other. The >last part of the year is dominated by the colder energy of the 5- >Phase Revenge cycle, helping to make the cold/flu syndromes a deeper >problem from the chest congestion. > >The pulses are deeper---Zang depth, not floating---and show dampness >and phlegm in the spleen and lung. Problems do not start at Taiyang >but deeper in the chest and throat. The phlegm can generate heat on >its own, or can be a good breeding ground for viruses which are >concentrate and exchanged by children going back to school, etc. > >So all this can happen without necessarily starting or going through >the Taiyang level as discussed in the SHL. I suspect the SHL would >be more useful if the patient is well balanced before the initial >cold invasion. If the Suwen pattern already dominates the patient >before the end of the year, we can better describe it in terms of 5- >Phases. The Suwen patterns take the year to develop; while SHL >patterns discuss acute symptomology and involve a briefer period >(usually days to weeks). But since TCM practitioners are primarily >herbalists, there is more interest and discussion of the SHL >approach. > >The 60-year Calendar cycle sets up what in Complexity Theory would >call the " initial conditions. " Then you compare your patient's >balance against this general pattern (Host and Guest). >Unfortunately, no one theory can always dominate a situation or >patient because there are so many variables---different patient >balance, local environment, different pathologies, etc. > >The changes in the presentation of colds and flu over the last >decade have been interesting and seem to follow the Suwen pattern. >In the early 1990's, we had obvious superficial Taiyang syndromes. >Each year, it seemed to start at a deeper level or had shorter and >shorter periods of Taiyang. For the last few years, there has been >no substantial Taiyang syndrome; and now, this year, it seems to be >moving up the levels again. > >The SHL theory seems to apply better when the person is well >balanced when the initial injury happens. The Suwen cycle locates >them on a rollercoaster over the course of the year. > > >Jim Ramholz -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 , Rory Kerr wrote: > I find the ideas in your post quite fascinating, and I have long > wondered how to make good use of them in a medical practice. As you point out, the main problem is the number of variables, so that the diagnostic process has to include: > > the theoretical extrinsic influences of the cycles > the actual extrinsic influences, as they occur > the intrinsic influence of the cycles, based on birth > the effects of the lived life on the constitution of the patient > the possible effects of happenstance and accident > the current circumstances of the patient's life > the actual presentation of the patient's illness > etc > > In considering all these, the chronobiology seems to be only a small part of the picture. Although I certainly treat colds and flu's, they are a rather small percentage of my practice, and when I'm faced with them, it's not too hard to simply use a standard diagnostic methods and pattern id to come up with a good treatment. Where I see the chronobiology possibly adding more insight is in understanding the progress of deeper chronic and more resistant diseases. > > Do you know of any modern sources that get into this subject in depth? Rory: Since these are broad concepts and large patterns (in time), one of the important keys is to apply these ideas to a population of patients rather than to an individual---a statistical group rather than a linear relation to a single person---moving from the general to the specific; rather than trying to explain the general from any individual case. The second key is to keep track of the population's common pulse patterns. While all the variables are important for an individual patient, for a general population---say everyone you're treating in a two week period---they can be largely ignored; you must focus just on the annual pattern. For example, during last year I kept track in my mind of how often I saw dampness and phlegm accumulating in the lung over the course the of first half of the year. Then, in August, I began to observe how many patients had developed mixed patterns of coughing (dry or unproductive alternating in the same person with raspy, phlegmish). Then, later in the year, when the 5-Element Revenge Cycle was most dominant, observed how each cold and flu pattern developed. Because various amounts of dampness and phlegm had built up in each person's lungs during the first half of the year due to the heat phase, the coldness of the Revenge Cycle helped create a cold-phlegm pattern in pulses that were already seasonally deep. Symptoms developed from the deeper conditions, and not at the Tai yang as presumed by the SHL. Unfortunately, I don't know of any modern studies on the subject. Just keep track of the 5-Element calculations---annual 5-Elements/6 Qi and seasonal 5-Elements (sometimes its fun to examine Flying Star System influences too). Again, I think the key is to use the calculations for a general population; afterwards, and only then, compare an individual to that general population to see how closely the patient matches the group's definition. So, more often than not, instead of using an herbal forumula to release the exterior, I used Er ke xing su san (a children's version of Apicot and Perilla Formula, which can be found in the QualiHerb catalog). It's for common cold exhibiting lung phlegm, bronchitis, and coughing. As I mentioned earlier, if a particular person has not been affected by the annual Revenge Cycle, then it is more likely that he could follow the SHL pattern. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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