Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 The concept of thick and thin herbs is described in YiFan Yang's book on Chinese Herbal medicine comparisons and characteristics. Or you can read my synopsis on the topic: http://gancao.net/ht/thick.shtml -al. > Par Scott wrote: > > Hello group, > > I was wondering if anyone had information on thin/thick light/heavy > quality of qi and flavors in herbs and Chinese dietary theory. What > period did this notion come out of? Is their any English language > info on the topic, or materia medica that incorporate these as > additional characteristics? > > Par Scott > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 Hello group, I was wondering if anyone had information on thin/thick light/heavy quality of qi and flavors in herbs and Chinese dietary theory. What period did this notion come out of? Is their any English language info on the topic, or materia medica that incorporate these as additional characteristics? Par Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 Al, Is it possible to get the characters or at least the pinyin for 'thick' and 'thin'? I'd like to look it up. I have another translated article that uses the terms 'slippery' and 'subtle' when describing medicinals, and I want to see if the original terms are the same. On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 05:14 PM, Al Stone wrote: > The concept of thick and thin herbs is described in YiFan Yang's book > on > Chinese Herbal medicine comparisons and characteristics. > > Or you can read my synopsis on the topic: > > http://gancao.net/ht/thick.shtml > > -al. > >> Par Scott wrote: >> >> Hello group, >> >> I was wondering if anyone had information on thin/thick light/heavy >> quality of qi and flavors in herbs and Chinese dietary theory. What >> period did this notion come out of? Is their any English language >> info on the topic, or materia medica that incorporate these as >> additional characteristics? >> >> Par Scott >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 There is no mention of the pinyin or characters offered in the book in question. Don't know if this will help, but he actually refers to thick and thin while talking about herb temperature so that there are thick hot, thin hot, thick cold, and thin cold herbs. -al. wrote: > > Al, > Is it possible to get the characters or at least the pinyin for > 'thick' and 'thin'? I'd like to look it up. I have another translated > article that uses the terms 'slippery' and 'subtle' when describing > medicinals, and I want to see if the original terms are the same. > > > On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 05:14 PM, Al Stone wrote: > > > The concept of thick and thin herbs is described in YiFan Yang's book > > on > > Chinese Herbal medicine comparisons and characteristics. > > > > Or you can read my synopsis on the topic: > > > > http://gancao.net/ht/thick.shtml > > > > -al. > > > >> Par Scott wrote: > >> > >> Hello group, > >> > >> I was wondering if anyone had information on thin/thick light/heavy > >> quality of qi and flavors in herbs and Chinese dietary theory. What > >> period did this notion come out of? Is their any English language > >> info on the topic, or materia medica that incorporate these as > >> additional characteristics? > >> > >> Par Scott > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 I saw an article in an australian journal that a similar set of terms for dietary theory, and I was wondering if they were the same as the thin and thick in herb theory. I'll look them up, I've got a card with some notes somewhere in this pile! - Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:56 PM Re: thin/thick flavors & qi Al, Is it possible to get the characters or at least the pinyin for 'thick' and 'thin'? I'd like to look it up. I have another translated article that uses the terms 'slippery' and 'subtle' when describing medicinals, and I want to see if the original terms are the same.On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 05:14 PM, Al Stone wrote:> The concept of thick and thin herbs is described in YiFan Yang's book > on> Chinese Herbal medicine comparisons and characteristics.>> Or you can read my synopsis on the topic:>> http://gancao.net/ht/thick.shtml>> -al.>>> Par Scott wrote:>>>> Hello group,>>>> I was wondering if anyone had information on thin/thick light/heavy>> quality of qi and flavors in herbs and Chinese dietary theory. What>> period did this notion come out of? Is their any English language>> info on the topic, or materia medica that incorporate these as>> additional characteristics?>>>> Par Scott>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Par, We've set up a forum at the Paradigm website to talk about Chinese medical Chinese language, characters, their derivations, etymologies, and translations. The good thing there is that we've solved the issues relating to everyone involved actually being able to see the Chinese characters. So if you want to get into what these two words are, mean, etc. come on by and we can talk about it there. It's www.paradigm-pubs.com and click on the " Forum " link in the and Computers section of the homepage. You might have to make some adjustments to your browser and your personal profile at the Paradigm site, but it's all pretty well explained, and now there's a small group of people there who all understand how it works. So if you need help, just ask. Ken , " Par Scott " <parufus@e...> wrote: > I found the piece of paper... > > The characters that I read about in the diet article (Food and dietary practices and their relationship within Chinese medicine, part 2, Dr. Jiansheng Zhang and Peter Gigante, PJOM #10 p.20) were da (large) shan4, (meaning nourishment, or meal, which consists of the meat radical plus the character shan4 meaning " good " or " appropriate " ) and xiao (small/little) shan4(same shan as before). I sould point out that I am assuming this is the shan that they were talking about, it is the only character " shan " to deal with food and nourishment, there is another which means supply/maintain, but it seems off the mark. Other than that it's all mountains. > > The meaning was described as having to do to some extent with the mobility and effect of the foodstuff, da shan indicated things that were slow and nourishing, which when overconsumed lead to accumulation type problems, like dairy, meat and potatos. Xiao shan caused stronger fluctuations, generally had stronger flavors etc., but their action is too quick, and must be moderated by preparation techniques, or combination with da shan type foods. > > I asked one of my old herb teachers about it today, and she thought they might just be saying qiang2 and ruo4 strong/weak, but I believe in my heart of hearts there is another set of characters out there for " thick and thin " . Is this an older theory? Shen Nong Ben Cao is always going on about how certain herbs make the body light... which I always took to be a alchemical buzzword for enlightened, or less physically tied to the world. Ah, to slip the surly bonds of earth... > > Inquiring minds want to know! > > Par Scott > > - > > > Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:56 PM > Re: thin/thick flavors & qi > > > Al, > Is it possible to get the characters or at least the pinyin for > 'thick' and 'thin'? I'd like to look it up. I have another translated > article that uses the terms 'slippery' and 'subtle' when describing > medicinals, and I want to see if the original terms are the same. > > > On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 05:14 PM, Al Stone wrote: > > > The concept of thick and thin herbs is described in YiFan Yang's book > > on > > Chinese Herbal medicine comparisons and characteristics. > > > > Or you can read my synopsis on the topic: > > > > http://gancao.net/ht/thick.shtml > > > > -al. > > > >> Par Scott wrote: > >> > >> Hello group, > >> > >> I was wondering if anyone had information on thin/thick light/heavy > >> quality of qi and flavors in herbs and Chinese dietary theory. What > >> period did this notion come out of? Is their any English language > >> info on the topic, or materia medica that incorporate these as > >> additional characteristics? > >> > >> Par Scott > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Ken, I am going to try to dig up the article on this topic, translated by Chip Chace over the weekend from my huge pile of papers. I'll report at that time. On Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 08:14 PM, dragon90405 <yulong wrote: >> I asked one of my old herb teachers about it today, and she > thought they might just be saying qiang2 and ruo4 strong/weak, but I > believe in my heart of hearts there is another set of characters out > there for " thick and thin " . Is this an older theory? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 I found the piece of paper... The characters that I read about in the diet article (Food and dietary practices and their relationship within Chinese medicine, part 2, Dr. Jiansheng Zhang and Peter Gigante, PJOM #10 p.20) were da (large) shan4, (meaning nourishment, or meal, which consists of the meat radical plus the character shan4 meaning "good" or "appropriate") and xiao (small/little) shan4(same shan as before). I sould point out that I am assuming this is the shan that they were talking about, it is the only character "shan" to deal with food and nourishment, there is another which means supply/maintain, but it seems off the mark. Other than that it's all mountains. The meaning was described as having to do to some extent with the mobility and effect of the foodstuff, da shan indicated things that were slow and nourishing, which when overconsumed lead to accumulation type problems, like dairy, meat and potatos. Xiao shan caused stronger fluctuations, generally had stronger flavors etc., but their action is too quick, and must be moderated by preparation techniques, or combination with da shan type foods. I asked one of my old herb teachers about it today, and she thought they might just be saying qiang2 and ruo4 strong/weak, but I believe in my heart of hearts there is another set of characters out there for "thick and thin". Is this an older theory? Shen Nong Ben Cao is always going on about how certain herbs make the body light... which I always took to be a alchemical buzzword for enlightened, or less physically tied to the world. Ah, to slip the surly bonds of earth... Inquiring minds want to know! Par Scott - Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:56 PM Re: thin/thick flavors & qi Al, Is it possible to get the characters or at least the pinyin for 'thick' and 'thin'? I'd like to look it up. I have another translated article that uses the terms 'slippery' and 'subtle' when describing medicinals, and I want to see if the original terms are the same.On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 05:14 PM, Al Stone wrote:> The concept of thick and thin herbs is described in YiFan Yang's book > on> Chinese Herbal medicine comparisons and characteristics.>> Or you can read my synopsis on the topic:>> http://gancao.net/ht/thick.shtml>> -al.>>> Par Scott wrote:>>>> Hello group,>>>> I was wondering if anyone had information on thin/thick light/heavy>> quality of qi and flavors in herbs and Chinese dietary theory. What>> period did this notion come out of? Is their any English language>> info on the topic, or materia medica that incorporate these as>> additional characteristics?>>>> Par Scott>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 Par, Z'ev, The set of characters you are inquiring into, for 'thick' and 'thin', is 厚 hou4 & 薄 bo2 . First quote I know of is in the Suwen, chapter 5 (On the phenomena of yin and yang - yinyang yingxiang dalun). Li Shizhen quotes this passage and lists several commentaries (Zhang Yuansu's, Li Gao's a.o.) in chapter 1, section 气味阴阳 qi4wei4yin1yang2 of the Bencao Gangmu. The explanations are very illustrative with examples of herbs etc. It'll be an interesting passage to talk about further through the translatechinesemedicine list and the newly set up paradigm forum... Herman " Par Scott " <parufus Re: thin/thick flavors & qi I asked one of my old herb teachers about it today, and she thought they might just be saying qiang2 and ruo4 strong/weak, but I believe in my heart of hearts there is another set of characters out there for " thick and thin " . Is this an older theory? Shen Nong Ben Cao is always going on about how certain herbs make the body light... which I always took to be a alchemical buzzword for enlightened, or less physically tied to the world. Ah, to slip the surly bonds of earth... Inquiring minds want to know! Par Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 Thanks for the info, Herman, On Saturday, February 8, 2003, at 07:06 AM, Herman Oving - Aowen TCG wrote: > Par, Z'ev, > > > The set of characters you are inquiring into, for 'thick' and 'thin', > is 厚 hou4 & 薄 bo2 . > First quote I know of is in the Suwen, chapter 5 (On the phenomena of > yin and yang - yinyang yingxiang dalun). > Li Shizhen quotes this passage and lists several commentaries (Zhang > Yuansu's, Li Gao's a.o.) in chapter 1, section 气味阴阳 qi4wei4yin1yang2 > of the Bencao Gangmu. > The explanations are very illustrative with examples of herbs etc. > It'll be an interesting passage to talk about further through the > translatechinesemedicine list and the newly set up paradigm forum... > > Herman > > > > " Par Scott " <parufus > Re: thin/thick flavors & qi > > I asked one of my old herb teachers about it today, and she thought > they might just be saying qiang2 and ruo4 strong/weak, but I believe > in my heart of hearts there is another set of characters out there for > " thick and thin " . Is this an older theory? Shen Nong Ben Cao is > always going on about how certain herbs make the body light... which I > always took to be a alchemical buzzword for enlightened, or less > physically tied to the world. Ah, to slip the surly bonds of earth... > > Inquiring minds want to know! > > Par Scott > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003  Thanks for info Is there by any chance Chinese etext for Ben Cao Gang Mu? - Herman Oving - Aowen TCG Saturday, February 08, 2003 7:06 AM RE: thin/thick flavors & qi Par, Z'ev,The set of characters you are inquiring into, for 'thick' and 'thin', is 厚 hou4 & 薄 bo2 .First quote I know of is in the Suwen, chapter 5 (On the phenomena of yin and yang - yinyang yingxiang dalun).Li Shizhen quotes this passage and lists several commentaries (Zhang Yuansu's, Li Gao's a.o.) in chapter 1, section 气味阴阳 qi4wei4yin1yang2 of the Bencao Gangmu.The explanations are very illustrative with examples of herbs etc.It'll be an interesting passage to talk about further through the translatechinesemedicine list and the newly set up paradigm forum...Herman "Par Scott" <parufusRe: thin/thick flavors & qiI asked one of my old herb teachers about it today, and she thought they might just be saying qiang2 and ruo4 strong/weak, but I believe in my heart of hearts there is another set of characters out there for "thick and thin". Is this an older theory? Shen Nong Ben Cao is always going on about how certain herbs make the body light... which I always took to be a alchemical buzzword for enlightened, or less physically tied to the world. Ah, to slip the surly bonds of earth...Inquiring minds want to know!Par ScottChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.