Guest guest Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 Speaking of direct moxa, (or writing of it, rather) has anyone ever had a patient throw up from it. It has been used on my abdomen three times now, and in all three cases, I threw up within one to three hours. I did not feel nauseauted before; the urge came on very suddenly. The first two times I attributed it to a sweet cocktail I had on one occasion, and to a cigarette on the second occasion. But after the third time I have to wonder. Can provide more details if anyone needs. G Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 , Gabrielle Mathieu < gabriellemathieu> wrote: The > first two times I attributed it to a sweet cocktail I had > on one occasion, and to a cigarette on the second occasion. > But after the third time I have to wonder. > do you tend towards heat in the center, for which such moxa might be contraindicated. since you smoke and drink, this could easily be the case. you would have this condition of your midjiao, even when not on tobacco or alcohol. the procedure could thus add excess to excess and possibly cause nausea by impairing the nromal descent of ST qi. P.S. Should we consider moxa a form of external herbology, thus on topic for this forum. I would think so. Moxa works partially by contact of oils with the skin and inhalation, both herbal actions which have pharmacological components. It also works by heat, which has nothing to do with the moxa, per se and is essentially mehcnaical in nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 I cerntainly agree. Moxa is a very important subject that is often overlooked in its subtleties and therapeutic actions. We should be discussing it here. It is interesting to me that moxabustion therapy proceeded needling in Chinese medical history, as we see in the Mawangdui manuscripts. There are also moxabustion experts who don't do needling. I have a moxabustion manual by one that Michael Broffman gave me over 25 years ago. On Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 09:30 AM, < wrote: > , Gabrielle Mathieu < > gabriellemathieu> wrote: > The >> first two times I attributed it to a sweet cocktail I had >> on one occasion, and to a cigarette on the second occasion. >> But after the third time I have to wonder. >> > > > do you tend towards heat in the center, for which such moxa might be > contraindicated. since you smoke and drink, this could easily be the > case. > you would have this condition of your midjiao, even when not on > tobacco or > alcohol. the procedure could thus add excess to excess and possibly > cause > nausea by impairing the nromal descent of ST qi. > > > P.S. Should we consider moxa a form of external herbology, thus on > topic for > this forum. I would think so. Moxa works partially by contact of > oils with the > skin and inhalation, both herbal actions which have pharmacological > components. It also works by heat, which has nothing to do with the > moxa, > per se and is essentially mehcnaical in nature. > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 I had a patient with a slight fever who was feeling " off " . I moxa'd his du 14 as I'd just read an article on the efficacy of this treatment. Yes, moxa applied to Du 14 to reduce fever... Moments later, he tossed his cookies. Afterwards he actually felt much better. Not sure if that was the efficacy of the moxa or the need to throw up. -al. Gabrielle Mathieu wrote: > > Speaking of direct moxa, (or writing of it, rather) has > anyone ever had a patient throw up from it. It has been > used on my abdomen three times now, and in all three cases, > I threw up within one to three hours. I did not feel > nauseauted before; the urge came on very suddenly. The > first two times I attributed it to a sweet cocktail I had > on one occasion, and to a cigarette on the second occasion. > But after the third time I have to wonder. > > Can provide more details if anyone needs. > G > > > > Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus. > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 , Al Stone wrote: > I had a patient with a slight fever who was feeling " off " . I moxa'd his du 14 as I'd just read an article on the efficacy of this treatment. Yes, moxa applied to Du 14 to reduce fever... Moments later, he tossed his cookies. Al: Doing moxa on GV14 adds yang at a yang point to an already yang condition---or tonifying an excess. Don't always belive what you read. I did the same thing to myself many years ago when doing a few moxa on an abdomenal point in an attempt to move some damp-heat stagnation. It moved---but in the wrong direction like your patient. Stories like these are probably the reason Miki Shima will never publish his translation of a moxa classic. Many of the treatments use very large (literally thumb size) direct moxa. My teacher is also very fond of this style of moxa treatment; and I've seen him use it on his patients often. Shima related one traditional story over dinner when he came to speak at our state association a few years back. In order to fix a spinal deformation, the patient had to do very large moxa on GV points daily for many months---a very painful procedure. Along with the severe pain and 3rd degree burns, a great deal of pus was generated each time; the bed clothes had to be constantly washed. During the course of the treatment, and the odor of the pus changed in a 5-Element sequence, from putred to, finally, sweet. But the spine straightened. Another happy ending credited to CM! Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 , " James Ramholz <jramholz> " <jramholz> wrote: > , Al Stone wrote: > > I had a patient with a slight fever who was feeling " off " . I > moxa'd his du 14 as I'd just read an article on the efficacy of this > treatment. Yes, moxa applied to Du 14 to reduce fever... Moments > later, he tossed his cookies. > > > Al: > > Doing moxa on GV14 adds yang at a yang point to an already yang > condition---or tonifying an excess. Don't always belive what you > read. This is a very common moxibustion tx in Japan, for example in Sawada style. Guess they didn't read the same books as us... rh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Seems to me that Al's original post was pretty weak in terms of both clinical detail and logic. What was the patient's pattern? Why did he chose to use the protocol he did? Based on what treatment principles? What happened to the patient after the vomiting? What happened to the fever? Post hoc does not establish propter hoc, at least not without further data. Bob , " kampo36 <kampo36> " <kampo36> wrote: > , " James Ramholz > <jramholz> " <jramholz> wrote: > > , Al Stone wrote: > > > I had a patient with a slight fever who was feeling " off " . I > > moxa'd his du 14 as I'd just read an article on the efficacy of > this > > treatment. Yes, moxa applied to Du 14 to reduce fever... Moments > > later, he tossed his cookies. > > > > > > Al: > > > > Doing moxa on GV14 adds yang at a yang point to an already yang > > condition---or tonifying an excess. Don't always belive what you > > read. > > This is a very common moxibustion tx in Japan, for example in Sawada > style. Guess they didn't read the same books as us... > > rh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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