Guest guest Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Are there any western language sources of information regarding using acupuncture for anethesia purposes in surgery (dental or otherwise)? I've heard of using ear points and local points with electro at high intensity until the local area feels numb to the patient, but that's about the extent of my knowledge in that area. Not exactly something I would like to do to just try out for fun... Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Hi Geoffrey, I have a book called "Getting to Know Acupuncture Anaesthesia" by Edward Lim Chai-Hsi, 1976 Dorrance & Co. In this book he lists the points on main meridians and various microsystems (including the nose, yeeowch!) that are usable as anesthetic treatments, but he's pretty terse as to technique. He suggests modes of stimulation and has a selection of typical surgeries with recommended points. There is also a section which covers Western style research (the man was/is an MD it seems first and foremost) including neurotransmitters, etc. It is all 30 year old Chinese research obviously, which I'm in no real position to evaluate. He says obtaining a strong qi sensation is important, and while he mentions distal points he says having a point or points from the same spinal nerve route is generally a good thing. He talks (very briefly) about using manual (200 twist per minute), electro stim (no recommended frequency) and point injection with procaine or Vit B. If you're interested in a particular surgery I would be happy to forward his recommended points. I hope that helps, Par Scott - Geoffrey Hudson Tuesday, February 18, 2003 1:17 AM Acupuncture anethesia Are there any western language sources of information regarding using acupuncture for anethesia purposes in surgery (dental or otherwise)? I've heard of using ear points and local points with electro at high intensity until the local area feels numb to the patient, but that's about the extent of my knowledge in that area. Not exactly something I would like to do to just try out for fun... GeoffChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 I saw acupuncutre anesthesia done in China a few times. I took good notes, they're here: http://gancao.net/ht/anesthesia.shtml I would think that if you can identify the nerves that innervate the teeth in question, you could set up a needle on either side of the nerve, and then zap the daylights out of it to induce the nerve accomidation necessary for numbness. These points along with shen calming, LI4 for the pain, etc... -al. > Geoffrey Hudson wrote: > > Are there any western language sources of information regarding using > acupuncture for anethesia purposes in surgery (dental or otherwise)? > I've heard of using ear points and local points with electro at high > intensity until the local area feels numb to the patient, but that's > about the extent of my knowledge in that area. Not exactly something > I would like to do to just try out for fun... > > Geoff > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 kindly fwd any info regarding points/manipulation/electro stim etc as I am doing some research in this area. thanksYosef Pollack Licensed Acupuncturist (773) 472-2600 office (773) 907-8810 home (773) 490-7259 cell "Par Scott" Re: Acupuncture anethesia Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:27:13 -0800 MessageHi Geoffrey, I have a book called "Getting to Know Acupuncture Anaesthesia" by Edward Lim Chai-Hsi, 1976 Dorrance & Co. In this book he lists the points on main meridians and various microsystems (including the nose, yeeowch!) that are usable as anesthetic treatments, but he's pretty terse as to technique. He suggests modes of stimulation and has a selection of typical surgeries with recommended points. There is also a section which covers Western style research (the man was/is an MD it seems first and foremost) including neurotransmitters, etc. It is all 30 year old Chinese research obviously, which I'm in no real position to evaluate. He says obtaining a strong qi sensation is important, and while he mentions distal points he says having a point or points from the same spinal nerve route is generally a good thing. He talks (very briefly) about using manual (200 twist per minute), electro stim (no recommended frequency) and point injection with procaine or Vit B. If you're interested in a particular surgery I would be happy to forward his recommended points. I hope that helps, Par Scott - Geoffrey Hudson Tuesday, February 18, 2003 1:17 AM Acupuncture anethesia Are there any western language sources of information regarding using acupuncture for anethesia purposes in surgery (dental or otherwise)? I've heard of using ear points and local points with electro at high intensity until the local area feels numb to the patient, but that's about the extent of my knowledge in that area. Not exactly something I would like to do to just try out for fun... Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 zap the daylights out of it to induce the nerveaccomidation necessary for numbness.>>>Use high frequency ele stim to get anesthesia, you can get almost a complete block which takes about 10 minutes to come on and lasts about 10 min after you stop stimulation alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 > Alon Marcus wrote: > > zap the daylights out of it to induce the nerve > accomidation necessary for numbness. > >>>Use high frequency ele stim to get anesthesia, you can get almost a > complete block which takes about 10 minutes to come on and lasts about > 10 min after you stop stimulation We used a mixed wave (fast, then slow) to prevent the nerves from getting used to the stimulation. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Is that high frequency and/or high intensity? > > zap the daylights out of it to induce the nerve > > accomidation necessary for numbness. > > >>>Use high frequency ele stim to get anesthesia, you can > get almost a > > complete block which takes about 10 minutes to come on and > lasts about > > 10 min after you stop stimulation > > We used a mixed wave (fast, then slow) to prevent the nerves from > getting used to the stimulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 We used a mixed wave (fast, then slow) to prevent the nerves fromgetting used to the stimulation >>No need to if stimulation is continues. It needs to be at least 1000hz Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 high frequency and/or high intensity >>>Usually both. You will need to increase intensity a few time if a nerve block is to be achieved. This will result in numbness just like lidocain alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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