RE: CEU's a tax on our profession

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to say thanks to Allon Marcus for a great seminar this last week

end.

AND to mention to all how important I believe it is that " real " courses (for

CEU) be offered.

In the last five years I've attended a great many very interesting,

insightful yet useless seminars. For the most part too many seminars are

simply a " tax " on our profession.

 

My complaint has been that there has been too short of time allowed to

present the material along with support necessary to developed any useful

and practical tools. Its like Las Vegas where they teach you just enough

gambling to put your money on the table.

 

I want to encourage all our leaders to produce quality seminars. Simply put

if something can not be taught in the hours allotted it should not be

taught. If it can not directly benefit the student there is no value. A feel

good seminar and easy CEU's is simply selling Blue Sky.

 

On this list I've heard a lot of talk about raising standards ...

 

I'd suggest two events

1) an " industry standard " certification - on the course itself. Peer

reviewed

2) a _real test_ at the end of each seminar. Don't pass no CEU's

 

 

As we become professionals shouldn't we strive to increasingly raise the

bar?

Allon's course - not perfect - is a course in the right direction. This

represents a good working model, a baseline for others. Each module may

stand on its own but taken together there is a real culmination of

knowledge. The more I invest the more I earn. Wow, maybe I really did learn

something.

 

There are a number of CEU providers on this list (as well as the list

itself).

How many of you providers are willing to submit to a peer review to

standards that most of you have echoed as worthy for our profession.

 

How many of you providers would be willing to take one of the " industry

standard courses " and a real test of skill and knowledge? How about a grade

instead of a simply pass/fail? You know you will also have to take a class

or two for your CEU's. Perhaps that's the short coming - no one wants to be

judged by others. (especially when one has worked hard to get to the top)

 

I do not mean to be negative. My intention is to raise our standards.

Allon's course as I said was indeed useful and practical. Yet I think on how

much better we could utilize our training and how much better our patients

would benefit.

 

Thanks for listening,

I hope this encourages all to be better than they themselves expect.

 

Ed Kasper L.Ac.,

Santa Cruz, CA. 95060

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

I agree wholeheartedly with raising the bar on CEU courses. And I think the

authorized providers (the schools or individuals who organize these events)

should play a stronger role in ensuring the quality. How many of them

require the presenter to submit detailed curriculum materials ahead of time,

including samples of handouts and overheads?

 

I think a test at the end is a good idea. People will hate this, but

otherwise, how does it qualify as " continuting education " ? At some of the

major conferences, I have seen people signing in and then leaving. Shame!

 

Julie

 

 

Ed Kasper wrote:

> Just wanted to say thanks to Allon Marcus for a great seminar this last

week

> end.

> AND to mention to all how important I believe it is that " real " courses

(for

> CEU) be offered.

> In the last five years I've attended a great many very interesting,

> insightful yet useless seminars. For the most part too many seminars are

> simply a " tax " on our profession.

[Guest guest]

I think the authorized providers (the schools or individuals who

organize these events)should play a stronger role in ensuring the

quality. How many of them require the presenter to submit detailed

curriculum materials ahead of time, including samples of handouts and

overheads?

 

Blue Poppy Institute certainly does. We even insure that our teachers

have studied public speaking. In other words, we give them homework.

 

> I think a test at the end is a good idea.

 

Blue Poppy Institute requires passage of a written test for all

Distance Learning CEU certification. Most people don't mind this.

Every now and again someone balks at this -- even asks for the answers

ahead of time or, after they fail, asks for the answers before taking

a make-up.

 

People will hate this, but otherwise, how does it qualify as

" continuting education " ? At some of the major conferences, I have seen

people signing in and then leaving. Shame!

 

To be fair, most states and national organizations which require CEUs

to relicense or recertify do require CEU teaching organizations to

submit detailed lesson plans, course descriptions, teacher

credentials, etc. It's one of the regular pieces of work Blue Poppy

Institute requires me to do. Whether anyone at the state and national

level really looks at these crtically is another question, but

providers do have to submit them for pre-approval, and, in this day

and age, pre-approval is important for enrolling attendees. By and

large, in the last few years, people will not enroll for classes if

they are not sure they can use them for CEUs.

 

Bob

[Guest guest]

> To be fair, most states and national organizations which require CEUs

> to relicense or recertify do require CEU teaching organizations to

> submit detailed lesson plans, course descriptions, teacher

> credentials, etc. It's one of the regular pieces of work Blue Poppy

> Institute requires me to do. Whether anyone at the state and national

> level really looks at these crtically is another question, but

> providers do have to submit them for pre-approval, and, in this day

> and age, pre-approval is important for enrolling attendees. By and

> large, in the last few years, people will not enroll for classes if

> they are not sure they can use them for CEUs.

>

> Bob

 

My experience in California is that the Acupuncture Board requires CVs of

the presenters, an outline of the topics, and an herbal disclaimer, but not

actual handouts, overheads or lecture notes. And I don't expect them to look

courses over in that much detail, but I think the provider (i.e., in this

case, the school sponsoring the event) needs to be responsible for reviewing

the content.

 

I have been to CEUs at the major semi-annual acupuncture conferences where

there WAS no agenda, or it wasn't followed, and the information presented

was either way too elementary or just plain useless.

 

Julie

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing

in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,

including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think the provider (i.e., in

this

> case, the school sponsoring the event) needs to be responsible for

reviewing

> the content.

 

> Julie

 

Julie,

 

I completely agree that the provider, whether that be a private

institution, school, or association, is ultimately responsible for the

quality of any classes they sponsor. If they put their name on it,

then they are responsible for it. That is why Blue Poppy Institute is

so careful about who we hire to teach for us. We turn down far more

people than we accept. Not only do we look carefully at the teachers'

credentials, we do require them to submit all their handouts and

overheads beforehand. When these do not meet our standards, we send

them back for revision/improvement until they do meet our standards.

Ultimately, our design and editorial departments are responsible for

anything that has the Blue Poppy name on it. That means that we

typically redesign and sometimes edit our teachers' materials. For

instance, we have definite standards of point size and font style for

overheads which insure readability as well as for number of points

made on each overhead. This helps insure clarity, emphasis, and

retention.

 

Teaching is its own profession with its own " tricks of the trade. "

Good clinicians do not necessarily make good teachers. Many

organizations which promote CEU functions do not take this into

account since those organizations are also not run by professional

teachers. Just as there's no good reason to expect a great clinician

to be a good teacher, there's no good reason to expect a great

clinician to be good at CEU organization.

 

Bob

[Guest guest]

Leaving this to the providers - or the States - does not /will not ensure

" Quality " . There is no accountability.

After all we have left everything to the providers and the State. Maybe

that's why we are where we are.

 

If someone doesn't like a Blue Poppy course - because maybe there is a test,

well fine go some where else - and they do. No Problem

If people want to go to a seminar and just sign in and leave - well ...

People that need those CEU to maintain a license, fine.

 

For the most part CEU seminars are simply an expanded magazine article.

Interesting and informative.

 

I SAY, Let's separate the wheat from the chaff.

Establish " Board Certified " Peer review that does mean something AND where

one can honestly pursue and challenge excellence.

Let's challenge each other to bring out the best in each other.

 

Would Blue Poppy, CHA, Alon, et al... be willing to be Peer Reviewed ?

 

For example a Blue Poppy " Certification Program " . Perhaps the best in the

business BUT what does it mean?

What does it mean to the certificate holder ? to the prospective student ?

to other professionals both in our field and outside? What does it mean to

the patient.

 

Some of this " rage " was from the recent Alon Marcus Seminar I attended last

weekend. TRULY INSPIRING.! Interesting and informative just like most CEU's

and those magazine article. Except more hands on, more challenging and the

promise to continue with another whole set of building blocks that actually

do build on one another. I absolutely believe I learned something useful.

Yet ... I want Alon to be challenged - not by novice students like me ...

but the big guns. Get in there dare to make Alon a better teacher. This is

the excitement of life.

 

Personally, this comes from pure selfishness on my part. I am tried of

chasing windmills.

maybe if I close my eyes and click my heels ....

 

hey, but this is Santa Cruz

Ed Kasper LAc

---

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[Guest guest]

Some of this "rage" was from the recent Alon Marcus Seminar I attended lastweekend. TRULY INSPIRING.! Interesting and informative just like most CEU'sand those magazine article. Except more hands on, more challenging and thepromise to continue with another whole set of building blocks that actuallydo build on one another. I absolutely believe I learned something useful.Yet ... I want Alon to be challenged - not by novice students like me ...but the big guns. Get in there dare to make Alon a better teacher. This isthe excitement of life.>>>>Ed I am glad you enjoyed the class. I would have no problem being challenged by anybody. I have always said that if one is to create a board it must be done correctly and with broad community input. And i mean broad not just a few acupuncturists getting together.

Alon

[Guest guest]

I personally like that there is a wide variety of CEU's, some GREAT quality

and some not so great! I feel like since I have over 350 CEU's, for this

year alone.. I should have some say on the matter *LOL*. NO, I am not

obsessive... I do feel however, that there is sooooo much to learn about our

profession that 3,200 hours at PCOM only scratched the surface. I also feel

that 15 CEU's/year is not even enough. If it where up to me CEU's

requirements would be doubled to at least 30!

 

 

In the Love & the Light ; )

Teresa Hall, L.Ac., MS, QME

 

 

-

" Ed Kasper LAc. www.HappyHerbalist.com " <eddy

 

Wednesday, February 26, 2003 2:41 PM

RE: CEU's a " tax " on our profession

 

 

> Leaving this to the providers - or the States - does not /will not ensure

> " Quality " . There is no accountability.

> After all we have left everything to the providers and the State. Maybe

> that's why we are where we are.

>

> If someone doesn't like a Blue Poppy course - because maybe there is a

test,

> well fine go some where else - and they do. No Problem

> If people want to go to a seminar and just sign in and leave - well ...

> People that need those CEU to maintain a license, fine.

>

> For the most part CEU seminars are simply an expanded magazine article.

> Interesting and informative.

>

> I SAY, Let's separate the wheat from the chaff.

> Establish " Board Certified " Peer review that does mean something AND where

> one can honestly pursue and challenge excellence.

> Let's challenge each other to bring out the best in each other.

>

> Would Blue Poppy, CHA, Alon, et al... be willing to be Peer Reviewed ?

>

> For example a Blue Poppy " Certification Program " . Perhaps the best in the

> business BUT what does it mean?

> What does it mean to the certificate holder ? to the prospective student ?

> to other professionals both in our field and outside? What does it mean to

> the patient.

>

> Some of this " rage " was from the recent Alon Marcus Seminar I attended

last

> weekend. TRULY INSPIRING.! Interesting and informative just like most

CEU's

> and those magazine article. Except more hands on, more challenging and the

> promise to continue with another whole set of building blocks that

actually

> do build on one another. I absolutely believe I learned something useful.

> Yet ... I want Alon to be challenged - not by novice students like me ...

> but the big guns. Get in there dare to make Alon a better teacher. This

is

> the excitement of life.

>

> Personally, this comes from pure selfishness on my part. I am tried of

> chasing windmills.

> maybe if I close my eyes and click my heels ....

>

> hey, but this is Santa Cruz

> Ed Kasper LAc

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.455 / Virus Database: 255 - Release 2/13/2003

>

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing

in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,

including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

>