Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 , <@i...> wrote: > On reflection, I think I agree with Al. We shouldn't teach a lower number > of herbs, but perhaps require less information about each herb. > > Again, the issue is outcomes. My academic dean asked me what do students > need to know off the top of their heads and what can they look up in a > book? I would say you can look up the exact ingredients and dosages of a > 12 herb formula in a textbook, for example. On the other hand, you need > to understand the dynamics of the formula off the top of your head because > there is no time to learn that while your patient is on the table. and others, You maybe totally right here, but let us look at the other side. The side of being able to write individualized herbal Rxs. A) is this a goal of the current educational process. – In china , obviously, prob all docs can do this… - In the states a very small % are really comfortable with this. (this may be changing) B) IMO, I did not really start ‘getting’ formulas, until I really started memorizing them. Of course I have forgot much of it, but there is something about drilling those combos over and over into one’s head. Having to make sense of why a given herb is in an herbal Rx and memorizing that. There is also some intangible osmotic type learning that occurs that is hard to describe. Its not really about drilling the combos (pure memorization) its about seeing them, in different situations and then how they interact with the rest of the herbs. Until I see the majority of students coming out of school being able to write an herbal Rx I think that something is wrong. I.e. I was supervising on a internal medicine clinic shift a couple of weeks ago, this shifts focus is herbs, it occurs once a week. Guess what? I didn’t do 1 raw Rx in 6 hours. I did 2 granular Rxs (after badgering them) and the rest were PILLS… Now there are many issues that go into this situation, but fundamentally I see the students lack of confidence and understanding of Rx’s. PAthomechanisms, dynamics and understanding (of the Rx) come about how? Do they just read BEnsky and get it? Well maybe I was too dense and it took memorizing it over and over to get it… But I am for memorization TO GET it. I think the earlier herbs 1-3 shouldn’t be a dense , but when one gets to Rx classes, I see great importance. One can look it up, but if one doesn’t truly understand the Rx / pathomechanism etc., than the game is lost. Finally understanding the single, as we have discussed, is not enough, because many of the Fxs are in formulas or combos, therefore where does the student get this? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 Jasan wrote: >>>Having to make sense of why a given herb is in an herbal Rx and memorizing that. There is also some intangible osmotic type learning that occurs that is hard to describe. Its not really about drilling the combos (pure memorization) its about seeing them, in different situations and then how they interact with the rest of the herbs. <<<< We have mentioned on this list a few times about the need for more focus on Dui Yao, herb combos as an educational stage between the study of individual herbs and formulas. I believe that this is an important step as formulas are a bunch of Dui Yao's that address a unique syndrome. Dui Yao's are like treatment principles. These are the building blocks of formulas. I'm not exactly sure how to best teach this as I am a practitioner who is only beginning to really use them on a regular basis, but formulas are generally taught as " these herbs address this problem " and " these herbs address this other problem this formula treats. " There groups of herbs are Dui Yao's. Recognizing AT LEAST this basic theory of formulas would be really helpful to assist students in understanding how formulas are created. Admitidly, this may have been presented in my class, but without the problem solving component to these classes, it probably went in one ear and out the other. The more I think about herb education, the more I think about breaking classes up into lecture, and then problem solving. Then there's the whole Shang Han Lun way of doing things, which imprints yet another part of the brain in regards to writing a formula beginning with a pathology and then adding and subtracting herbs to alter the medical focus of the formula. TCM thinking.... that's what we need to learn how to teach. : ) -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 I'd like to share how my herb teacher, Sara Bayer, taught our herb & formula class. Herbs and formulas were taught on two different days. In the begining, we were taught formula by formula, herb by herb, following Bensky. We would get a little bit of information about the herbs that we didn't know when we had a formula. For example, when we got to Xiao Qing Long Tang and we were still on Spicy Cool exterior releasing herbs, she would teach us a little bit about Ban Xia, Bai Shao so we would understand a bit about the herbs, since we wouldn't get to them until later in the year. After a short amount of time, we had a good basic handle on enough herbs so she would just write the herbs in a formula on the board, and we would tell her what the formula did. She wouldn't write the name of the formula until we were finished. It was interesting to compare what we would come up with and what the book said. After we had a basic handle on the single herbs in a formula, and we knew more basic formulas, we would point out the various components of formulas. For example, Wen Dan Tang is Er Chen Tang plus Zhu Ru and Zhi Shi. She also used a mnemonic for the tastes and channels for the single herbs. For example, Ma Huang, " WIB LuB " - Warm, spIcy, Bitter, enters Lung UB Channels. It got a little crazy with herbs like Zhi Zi, " BC LuJVoChiT " ... ug! I don't remember many of the mnemonics anymore, but using a formula because of the herbs in it rather than traditional indications is helpful. I've even heard things like Xue Fu Zhu Yu Tang is only used for pain under the ribs, which is ridiculous. Of course, when a male patient looks up a formula on the internet and asks me why I'm using a PMS formula for him, it makes for interesting discussion! Geoff > ____________ > __________ > > Message: 25 > Fri, 07 Mar 2003 10:26:47 -0800 > Al Stone <alstone > Re: Formula writing... > > Jasan wrote: > > >>>Having to make sense of why a given herb is in an herbal Rx and > memorizing that. > There is also some intangible osmotic type learning that > occurs that is > hard to describe. Its not really about drilling the combos (pure > memorization) its about seeing them, in different situations and then > how they interact with the rest of the herbs. <<<< > > Admitidly, this may have been presented in my class, but without the > problem solving component to these classes, it probably went > in one ear > and out the other. The more I think about herb education, the more I > think about breaking classes up into lecture, and then > problem solving. > > Then there's the whole Shang Han Lun way of doing things, > which imprints > yet another part of the brain in regards to writing a formula > beginning > with a pathology and then adding and subtracting herbs to alter the > medical focus of the formula. > > TCM thinking.... that's what we need to learn how to teach. : ) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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