Guest guest Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Dear Group, Does anyone have any advice for treating paralysis of the vocal cords, tongue and esophagus? The doctors say a viral infection caused the paralysis, and now the patient cannot swallow, so is being fed with a gastric tube. She is getting weaker and thinner. She is about 75. I'm obviously looking for acupuncture advice, since she would not be able to take herbs. You can answer to me privately if that is more appropriate. info Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Julie, I've treated several cases of this sort of thing over the years, largely with acupuncture and massage. I won't go into too much detail as it is definitely off topic for CHA. But I once had one of those seemingly miraculous results with a case of paralysis of the vocal cords treating UB 17. The patient was an actor who came in, couldn't speak and started talking during the treatment. Of course, we'd have to do several double blind controlled studies to know whether or not UB 17 is actually effective for treating the condition. But if you want to chat about the case, contact me off-list. Ken , Julie Chambers <info@j...> wrote: > Dear Group, > > Does anyone have any advice for treating paralysis of the vocal cords, > tongue and esophagus? The doctors say a viral infection caused the > paralysis, and now the patient cannot swallow, so is being fed with a > gastric tube. She is getting weaker and thinner. She is about 75. > > I'm obviously looking for acupuncture advice, since she would not be able to > take herbs. > > You can answer to me privately if that is more appropriate. > > info@j... > > Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 In a message dated 3/12/03 9:04:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, yulong writes: Of course, we'd have to do several double blind controlled studies to know whether or not UB 17 is actually effective for treating the condition. I think that one of the most valuable aspects of is the one condition, many treatments approach that - whether with herbal medicine or acupuncture, allows us to assess the differences and come up with treatment plans accordingly. UB 17 might be the best point imaginable for one case of vocal cord paralysis and not effective in someone else. I don't feel that a double blind controlled study would tell us enough (to be able to rule it out in treatment of this condition, or to use it to treat everyone with this condition) about the use of this point in vocal cord paralysis in a larger patient sample. You did a great job of finding the point that matched this man's energetic dynamic - it worked the way it needed to. -Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I had a case similar that responded to the "cervical" hua tuo jia ji points, tender points of the nape and cranium, Ling Gu Xue & Da Bai Xue, Ht/Si tender pts, etc... GZ Julie Chambers <info wrote: Dear Group,Does anyone have any advice for treating paralysis of the vocal cords,tongue and esophagus? The doctors say a viral infection caused theparalysis, and now the patient cannot swallow, so is being fed with agastric tube. She is getting weaker and thinner. She is about 75.I'm obviously looking for acupuncture advice, since she would not be able totake herbs.You can answer to me privately if that is more appropriate.infoJulieThe Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I think that one of the most valuable aspects of is the one condition, many treatments approach that - whether with herbal medicine or acupuncture, allows us to assess the differences and come up with treatment plans accordingly. UB 17 might be the best point imaginable for one case of vocal cord paralysis and not effective in someone else. I don't feel that a double blind controlled study would tell us enough (to be able to rule it out in treatment of this condition, or to use it to treat everyone with this condition) about the use of this point in vocal cord paralysis in a larger patient sample. You did a great job of finding the point that matched this man's energetic dynamic - it worked the way it needed to.-Anne Well put. You clearly express the weakness of the statistical paradigm required by WM to authenticate treatment, justify payment schedules, and operate within legalistic boundaries. The statistical paradigm is great for working on leads, but then you realize that to work toward resolution you must adjust to the paradigm of individual homeostasis that CM addresses so well. Emmanuel Segmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 , " dragon90405 " wrote: > The patient was an actor who came > in, couldn't speak and started talking > during the treatment. > > Of course, we'd have to do several double > blind controlled studies to know whether > or not UB 17 is actually effective for > treating the condition. Ken: What was the TCM diagnosis for the actor? Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 > > The patient was an actor who came > > in, couldn't speak and started talking > > during the treatment. > > Ken: > > What was the TCM diagnosis for the actor? > Jim Ramholz And not only that -- what was the western diagnosis? Why couldn't he speak? Julie > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Julie Chambers wrote: > > > > The patient was an actor who came > > > in, couldn't speak and started talking > > > during the treatment. > > > > Ken: > > > > What was the TCM diagnosis for the actor? > > > Jim Ramholz > > And not only that -- what was the western diagnosis? Why couldn't he speak? Was he a mime? -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 The statistical paradigm is great for working on leads, but then you realize that to work toward resolution you must adjust to the paradigm of individual homeostasis that CM addresses so well >>>Actually that is why some type of valid statistical paradigm is needed. There are quite a few of these statistical models available. An individual healing can never be categorized or truly attributed to a particular intervention. People get healed by doing nothing every day. If we are to suggest that a model of treatment works, it must do better than chance or some sham treatment Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 All, I mentioned this case anecdotally. I saw this patient more than a dozen years ago and simply recalled that he had walked into my office one day with the doctor who ran the clinic, who explained to me that the poor guy was an actor and couldn't talk. This doctor said that he was diagnosed with some form of vocal cord paralysis and that he had a performance scheduled in a few days and was in a fix. I had the patient lie on the massage table and started to examine him. I don't remember what his pulses felt like. In fact I was just fumbling around pressing on various parts of his body when I stumbled onto UB 17. I realized it was a theoretically important point for the case, and I saw that pressure on it created some changes in the fellow's position and the character of his body. So I simply held the point with steadily increasing pressure until the reactions faded; and then he started talking. It was one of those, Gee whiz experiences. And regarding the bit about the need for double blinded controlled trials, I was speaking with tongue in cheek. If I now think about the Chinese medical diagnosis, particularly from the hindsight perspective knowing that UB 17 was so effective in resolving the problem, I'd describe it as qi4 jie2 yan1 hou2 or simply qi4 zhi4, i.e., qi4 bound in the throat or qi4 stagnation. I don't recall if I ever saw this patient again. If I did it was no more than one more treatment. So I really can't recall much more than that. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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