Guest guest Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 Hi, I found this article on making alcohol extracts of formulas a little while ago and had hopes of trying it out. http://www.drjakefratkin.com/pdf/mae.pdf I was wondering if anybody had: a) Tried this b) Considered the dosage that this ends up being. c) Do you really want all of those filters with something that you might just be putting into a suspension, as opposed to a real solution? He claims good efficacy for what would seem to be an eensie dosage, thoughts, other opinions? Par Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 , " Par Scott " <parufus@e...> wrote: > Hi, > > I found this article on making alcohol extracts of formulas a little while ago and had hopes of trying it out. > http://www.drjakefratkin.com/pdf/mae.pdf > > I was wondering if anybody had: > a) Tried this > b) Considered the dosage that this ends up being. > c) Do you really want all of those filters with something that you might just be putting into a suspension, as opposed to a real solution? > > He claims good efficacy for what would seem to be an eensie dosage, thoughts, other opinions? > > Par I question many of his stats, i.e. that alchol-water extraction is 13 x more efficient cpmared to water extraction of bulk herbs; and this is because (?) he uses 100grams of herbs per 21 days... I would like to see more data... -JAson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2003 Report Share Posted March 20, 2003 , " " > > > I question many of his stats, i.e. that alchol-water extraction is 13 > x more efficient cpmared to water extraction of bulk herbs; and this > is because (?) he uses 100grams of herbs per 21 days... I would like > to see more data... > Well, let's see about this. Steve, Emmanuel, is it possible that alcohol extraction is 13X more efficient than water decoction. this sounds like biochemical nonsense to me. again, the ONLY way to prove this is by measuring marker ingredients. As soon as a company steps up and does this, I'll buy it. till then, fuggedaboudit. such claims without data to back them up are literally outrageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 , " Simon " <s.becker@l...> wrote: et al. > > The other problem with alcohol extraction is that you get different chemical > ingredients than with water decoction. If a prescription is supposed to be > extracted with water, I don't think alcohol will do the job. > > So even if you measure and compare: sure yo could have 13 times more of an > ingredient when extracted with alcohol; what about the rest? Maybe that > particular ingredient cannot be extracted well with water but is readily > taken out by alcohol; this explains the difference. > > Personally, I prefer sticking to the tried and tested; to me, this means > water extracts, i.e., decoctions. > > Simon Becker > > S, His argument is that he uses a 50%alc. 50%water.. Therefore he is getting both>??? DOes this make sense? -JAson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 , " Simon " <s.becker@l...> wrote: Maybe that > particular ingredient cannot be extracted well with water but is readily > taken out by alcohol; this explains the difference. simon good point. but then larger amounts of the alcohol extracted ingredients never belonged in the final product in the first place. the longer I am in this field, the more I rely on raw herbs. nothing else is as versatile. 2nd is granules because of cost-potency ratios. and then, well there really is nothing else on my list these days. In the past, I have been happy with blue Poppy, golden flower tabs/caps. And while never a fan of tinctures or alcohol/water concentrates, Cara has a liquid product that is an 100% aqueous extraction preserved with alcohol AFTER extraction (correct me if I am wrong). so the extract only has the constituents and proportions that come out in decoction. I like this product a lot for long term tonification mostly. In fact, when I owned an elixir bar in Portland, Oregon in the mid 90's, I had the same manufacturer create the extracts I served as beverages. BTW, for anyone who thinks this is a cool idea, I left this business largely because I realized there no safe cost effective way to dispense these drinks. My reading at the time had convinced me that tonic herbs were quite damaging to one's health if misused, a common theme in the chinese medical literature. And my customers were definitely misusing the herbs (as are most of the customers at about half a dozen tonic bars I have visited). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2003 Report Share Posted March 21, 2003 Any reasons why a practionor-herbalists should not use vinegar and or vinegar honey for herbal tinctures? Alcohol may cause more damp heat and possibly form phlegm whereas vinegar is warm, invigorating and breaks stagnation. Vinegar is also better for children. Honey or Glycerin excellent preservatives for water extracted tinctures, have qualities of their own. I believe alcohol is the choice of the commercial industry because it is cheap and consistently pure - not because it serves a medicinal purpose Ed Kasper LAc Santa Cruz, CA --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release 2/25/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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