Fw: Now Zheng Qi/Xie Qi

[Guest guest]

Fernando Bernall wrote:

 

I think that Zheng Qi is the natural and orderly dissemination of information between body systems. Interpretation of such information and the appropriate response (one that maintains or leads to homeostasis) is Zheng Qi. The inability or failure to interpret this information or an inadequate response between body systems, manifests as xie qi or evil qi.Long term misinterpretation of information, or habitual dependence on outside sources, such as pharmaceuticals, will in time lessen the body's Zheng qi as it becomes more reliant on exogenous factors to maintain a coherent internal dialogue.

 

Fernando, Ken and All,

Ken has called upon us to apply Zheng Qi and Xie Qi. So I felt it good to restate Fernando's thesis before starting on one such effort. I would also like to note that patients presenting with clinically identifiable imbalances have often done what we all do from time to time. When overly tired we try to accomplish more instead of taking rest. One could say this injures Zheng Xie and nourishes Xie Qi. Or we skip normal nourishment when again trying to accomplish more or when our schedule is interrupted. Skipping a meal or skipping our exercises means not nourishing or not tonifying Zheng Qi. Trying to make up for it later in inappropriate ways like overeating or eating foods that lead to blood glucose spikes nourishes Xie Qi and leaves Zheng Qi unsupported. The things supporting Xie Qi here are lack of sleep, malnourishment, and lack of tonification (skipping exercise). As usual I consider all of the "internal dosaging" that the body does to support homeostasis as well as the internal dosaging that occurs when imbalances occur that might injure homeostasis.

I really want to apply this dialectic to chronic disorders which have a significant chance of resolution. One example of interest would be the constellation of syndromes surrounding the common genetic marker HLA-B27. Those with this marker are predisposed in their late 20s to spurring of thoracic and lumbar vertebrae in a manner that eventually leads to ankylosing (growing together or fusion) of the lower back vertebrae. If addressed via chiropractic or tui na the condition resolves by the 40s. If not addressed through the late 20s and 30s, ankylosing ensues by the 40s and then neural involvement by the 50s and 60s. Other syndromes keep arising in individuals with this marker even when corrective treatments are applied. Uveitis or more specifically iritis occurs by the 30s and early 40s. Again Chinese medicine as well as treatment by ophthalmology can correct this syndrome which then spontaneously subsides by the late 40s. According to the Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Treatment (17th ed.) that if one successfully treats these conditions in the patient's late 20s and 30s, one can pretty much expect to have complete resolution of these issues by ones late 40s and early 50s.

One can say regarding these treatments and resolutions that Zheng Qi has been nourished and restored, and that Xie Qi has been disengaged. These are chronic syndromes that seem to resolve when the "momentum" is shifted in the direction of Zheng Qi and away from Xie Qi. It's interesting to note that at a certain point the momentum of Zheng Qi seems to displace the momentum of Xie Qi. Perhaps "momentum" in treatments or practices supporting Zheng Qi may be viewed as the protocol outlining a successful treatment.

I'd be interested to hear from Ken, Fernando, Rey and others how badly I've misrepresented this dialectic of Zheng Qi and Xie Qi by applying them to this particular condition described in Western terms. As always I'm trying to find ways of letting CM language and protocols inform my understanding of physiological princples. I hope you'll forgive my quickly and crudely expressed thoughts.

Emmanuel Segmen

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel,

 

Thanks for your crude thoughts.

 

I was just thinking this morning that

the design and availability of tools is

only one, albeit critically important

aspect of their proper use. The other

arguably more essential ingredient in

correct application of tools is knowledge

and understanding. This knowledge and

understanding must embrace both the tool

and the work to be performed.

 

Zheng4 qi4 and xie2 qi4 are, in my assessment,

tools that can be used for a large number

of potential applications. My aim in

taking part in these discussion is to

enhance our mutual understanding of

what these tools are and how they can be

productively applied in the clinic.

 

I think your focus on the " internal

dosaging " that the body is always engaged

in is particularly useful in this regard.

This dosaging can be understood in traditional

Chinese terms as the transformation of post-natal

essence. The body is an environment in which

certain such transformations naturally take

place. They naturally take place in certain

sequences from which emerge the patterns that

we know as normal physiology. The terminology

that we generate to label these changes and

patterns is, in and of itself, a manifestation

or an extenstion of the self-same patterns of

organic change.

 

This notion of normal...or upright, i.e., straight,

i.e., zheng4 patterns of organic change (i.e., qi4)

is the standard with which we assess patients.

 

The taiji classics contain this phrase:

 

" seek the straight in the curved. "

 

The zheng4 qi4 is the straight, upright

line that interconnects the various places

in the body that serve as depots and junctions

at which the alternations of yin1 and yang2

take place, which we understand to be the

ongoing genesis of qi4 as it " circulates "

throughout the life(time) of the body (space).

 

Mengzi and Zhuangzi both said that in the

whole universe there is just one qi4.

This remark cannot be said not to apply

to zheng4 qi4 and xie2 qi4, for if it

could be said of zheng4 qi4 and xie2 xi4

that they diverge from this one qi4,

then Mengzi and Zhuangzi would both

be wrong.

 

I think they were both right and that in

the whole world there is just one qi4.

 

Therefore zheng4 qi4 is xie2 qi4.

Yin1 is yang2.

 

What does it mean to seek the straight

in the curved? Or, in other words,

how do we seek stillness in movement?

 

Yet another random thought about eating.

According to Huainanzi, which has always

been confirmed by my personal experience,

the biggest issue human beings have with

food is merely its availability. When there

is no food, people starve. When there is

an abundance of food, people eat too much,

which wastes the zheng4 qi4.

 

To come back to the point you raised about

the cyclical patterns of pathogenesis,

I think that the terms zheng4 qi4 and xie2

qi4 arise from just such sensibilities,

expressed of course in Chinese terms

rather than the terms of Western medical

science. The material on temporal (cyclical)

harmony in the Nei Jing supports this

interpretation, I believe. And, as we've

discussed superficially in this forum in

the past, an underlying issue that should

be brought to view is the whole notion of

time in ancient China and how it impinges on

and influences Chinese medical thought and

strategies.

 

Thanks for reposting Fernando's notes.

I find them as eloquent on rereading

as they seemed to me initially.

 

I am particularly concerned about this

phenomenon he refers to as " long term

misterpretation of information. "

 

Such are my own crude thoughts.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

If addressed via chiropractic or tui na the condition resolves by the 40s.

>>>There is no evidence that chiropractic can slow down, or prevent the development of anlylosing spond. On the other hand HLA-B27 is often positive in patients that do not have the disease. So your claims would be quite difficult to support regardless of belief.

Alon