SARS Origins & Prevention & Sobriety

[Guest guest]

, " Emmanuel Segmen " wrote:

> I'm assuming a lot of people are getting treated for upper and

lower respiratory infections in China. Those are the herbs that are

suddenly in short supply. So there's a lot of Chinese medicine

treatments going on right now for cold-flu type scenarios.

> I would guess that a word to the wise would be that a coronavirus-

type cold infection is well known in many ways.>>>

 

 

 

 

Emmanuel:

 

That may very well be the case, but where is the direct TCM clinical

info? Is it a response to SARS or only its threat---are the herbs

being taken preventatively? They may also be running out of duct

tape.

 

I'm surprised that, after so many months, we have still not heard

any direct clinical TCM experience regarding SARS. After seeing a

number of patients, an experienced TCM practitioner should be able

to assess and relate how different SARS is from the typical seasonal

problem---for example, what do the pulses look like, the depths

involved, the ratio of heat to wind to phlegm that characterizes

this particular problem and distinguishes it from any other season.

 

With all the people on the list and all their personal connections

to China I just thought there would be more specifics.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel, et al,

 

A huge percentage of the current consumption of

medicinal herbs in Beijing, based on my own

observation of about half a dozen herbal pharmacies

in town over the past few days, is self-prescribed

and self-administered formulas. Various formulas

appear in emails, newspapers, xeroxed notices

that hang on office doors and walls, and so on.

 

Pharmacies all over town are sold out of

a large number of medicinals. Many of these

are heat clearing and detoxifying in nature.

 

This is a cause of some concern as it

suggests that many people are taking

overly aggressive medicines to " protect "

themselves from symptoms that they do

not have. Of course, they can and will

probably damage their spleen qi through

such improper administration. And

this no doubt will result in lowered

immune functions for many folks will

find themselves more vulnerable through

the improper use of herbs.

 

This is the second epidemic I've been

through in China. The first was a cholera

outbreak in Chengdu in the early or mid

90s that killed dozens and had the whole

city eating anti-biotics prophylactically

despite the well known medical fact that

cholera is unresponsive to any anti-biotics.

 

I talked to a doctor there who was handing

them out like candy who explained there

was some sense in preventing secondary

opportunistic infections. But it didn't

seem to matter to him that the cholera

would probably kill the patient long before

any secondary infection had a chance to

get well established.

 

Mass hysteria is a very curious phenomenon,

and it is now building to a fever pitch

in Beijing. Rumors are flying. And, as

you notice in the emptiness of containers

that once were filled with various medicinal

herbs, people are consuming vast quantities

of traditional remedies.

 

They stand at the counters in the herb

shops comparing notes on formulas and

exchanging the latest gossip. I'll do

what I can to keep you and others on

the list updated concerning the developing

scene here.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

It is too bad we don't have any public voices to address this stuff in

our field. However, I didn't hear too many voices speaking out in the

West about consuming cipro 'to prevent' anthrax or smallpox

vaccinations for a terrorist epidemic that has not seen the light of

day. Is this some kind of trend?

 

 

On Wednesday, April 16, 2003, at 06:30 PM, dragon90405 wrote:

 

> This is a cause of some concern as it

> suggests that many people are taking

> overly aggressive medicines to " protect "

> themselves from symptoms that they do

> not have. Of course, they can and will

> probably damage their spleen qi through

> such improper administration. And

> this no doubt will result in lowered

> immune functions for many folks will

> find themselves more vulnerable through

> the improper use of herbs.

[Guest guest]

Ken,

Thanks. That answers my questions regarding the herbs. We're loading containers just now in a few different growing regions: Jilin, Shandong, Sichuan and Gansu. You are getting to see most clearly what's happening at the ground level. I can imagine that the current CM wisdom on SARS is getting greatly diluted or lost in the hysteria.

You make the most important point that people are injuring themselves by self-medicating with inappropriate herbs. Getting a personally tuned tonic formula with good rest and good hygiene would be the normal procedure without SARS. It should be the normal thing in the presence of SARS.

Thank you for your "embedded" commentary.

Emmanuel Segmen

 

-

dragon90405

Wednesday, April 16, 2003 6:30 PM

Re: SARS Origins & Prevention & Sobriety

Emmanuel, et al,A huge percentage of the current consumption ofmedicinal herbs in Beijing, based on my ownobservation of about half a dozen herbal pharmaciesin town over the past few days, is self-prescribedand self-administered formulas. Various formulasappear in emails, newspapers, xeroxed noticesthat hang on office doors and walls, and so on.Pharmacies all over town are sold out ofa large number of medicinals. Many of theseare heat clearing and detoxifying in nature.This is a cause of some concern as itsuggests that many people are takingoverly aggressive medicines to "protect"themselves from symptoms that they donot have. Of course, they can and willprobably damage their spleen qi throughsuch improper administration. Andthis no doubt will result in loweredimmune functions for many folks willfind themselves more vulnerable throughthe improper use of herbs.This is the second epidemic I've beenthrough in China. The first was a choleraoutbreak in Chengdu in the early or mid 90s that killed dozens and had the wholecity eating anti-biotics prophylacticallydespite the well known medical fact thatcholera is unresponsive to any anti-biotics.I talked to a doctor there who was handingthem out like candy who explained therewas some sense in preventing secondaryopportunistic infections. But it didn'tseem to matter to him that the cholerawould probably kill the patient long beforeany secondary infection had a chance toget well established.Mass hysteria is a very curious phenomenon,and it is now building to a fever pitchin Beijing. Rumors are flying. And, asyou notice in the emptiness of containersthat once were filled with various medicinalherbs, people are consuming vast quantitiesof traditional remedies.They stand at the counters in the herbshops comparing notes on formulas andexchanging the latest gossip. I'll dowhat I can to keep you and others onthe list updated concerning the developingscene here.Ken

[Guest guest]

It is too bad we don't have any public voices to address this stuff in our field. However, I didn't hear too many voices speaking out in the West about consuming cipro 'to prevent' anthrax or smallpox vaccinations for a terrorist epidemic that has not seen the light of day. Is this some kind of trend?

Zev, I for one spoke out strongly in the classroom setting against using cipro for anthrax and smallpox. Most medical students in the U.S. get beaten from both sides, so to speak. In basic science we are clearly shown how injurious such things as cipro and rifampin and the like can be. The virology professors read the riot act to us about this. Then in clinic they're doled out as a kind of "good hygiene" or something. It's a mind-numbing dichotomy.

Emmanuel Segmen

[Guest guest]

At 1:30 AM +0000 4/17/03, dragon90405 wrote:

Pharmacies all over town are sold out

of

a large number of medicinals. Many of these

are heat clearing and detoxifying in

nature.

--

 

Ken, are you sure people are taking them now, or is it

possible people are buying these herbs and saving them in case they

start getting sick? After all, that would be the rational thing to do

if there was a likelihood that they will be in short supply if the

epidemic increases it's hold.

 

Did you do the interview?

 

Rory

[Guest guest]

Rory,

 

> --

>

> Ken, are you sure people are taking them now,

 

Not sure of anything.

 

or is it possible

> people are buying these herbs and saving them in case they start

> getting sick?

 

Certainly that is possible and is probably

also occuring. But I strongly suspect that

many are indeed consuming such formulas

now.

 

After all, that would be the rational thing to do if

> there was a likelihood that they will be in short supply if the

> epidemic increases it's hold.

 

Yes, well, rationality seems to be in short

supply. People are burning incense and

moxa in office buildings as a way of disinfecting

them. I understand from people who have recently

been in Hong Kong that that city is like

a ghost town now. Shops and restaurants

are closed en masse. Streets are empty.

 

Rumor lines are all buzzing and one of

the greatest challenges is to discern

what in the chaotic streams of data that

are flowing freely constitutes actual

information and what is purely and simply

hysterical noise.

 

So it's good that you ask.

 

 

>

> Did you do the interview?

 

Not the taped interview. My producer

had to go out of town until next week.

But I talked with Dr. Fan for a couple

of hours on Tuesday, and as I said yesterday

he has agreed to write an article on his

understanding of and approach to SARS.

As soon as I get it, I will translate it

and publish it.

 

Ken

>

> Rory