Guest guest Posted April 27, 2003 Report Share Posted April 27, 2003 Dear Listmembers I have gotten in a small argument here in Switzerland with a college who is saying that in China, the "predominant method of herbal administration at the hospitals is the individually wrapped day doses type of herbs." I cannot really believe this, as, when I was there a few years ago, it was all on a raw herb basis. I will go to China this summer and see for myself. However, in the meantime, I would like to ask all persons on this list who a) have recently been in China b) know for a FACT how it is CURRENTLY done or c) live and practice there who this matter really stands. What type of herbal administration is carried out in what type of hospitals? Is it true that the daily dose packages are quickly advancing to become the standard? How are tablets and pills (modern manufacturing) faring IN COMPARISON to raw herbs? I appreciate yur help. If this does not belong on this list, e-mail me privately. Simon Becker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2003 Report Share Posted April 27, 2003 Simon, The operant word in your argument is " predominant " . If I understand the type of doses you are referring to, i.e., the ones made in Korean-made pressure cookers that are then packaged in plastic hermetically sealed bags (which are generally divided into two bags per daily dose), then I can tell you that these kinds of administrations are increasingly popular in larger, more well-equipped Chinese hospitals offering traditional Chinese herbal medicines. Are they predominant? I've not way of knowing. I presume that by far the predominant dosage form remains bulk raw herb formulas that are prepared in the traditional ways at home by the patients or their families. But again, I've just got no idea of how to even begin to go about determining the extent of each type. Remember that 90% of the Chinese population remains in the countryside, and I can more or less guarantee that these folks have no access to anything but the traditional methods. Why don't you guys just slug it out? That's often the best way to settle such arguments. Why in the world are you arguing about this anyway? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2003 Report Share Posted April 27, 2003 , " dragon90405 " < yulong@m...> wrote: If I understand the type > of doses you are referring to, i.e., the > ones made in Korean-made pressure cookers > that are then packaged in plastic hermetically > sealed bags (which are generally divided > into two bags per daily dose), then I > can tell you that these kinds of administrations > are increasingly popular in larger, more > well-equipped Chinese hospitals offering > traditional Chinese herbal medicines. \ It makes sense that things would go this way as china modernizes. Is this a problem. These products are probably better than home decoctions in their potency and efficiency of extraction anyway. I am sure Ken is right about the rural population. from all that I read, they do not appear to have many modern conveniences, however, I thought they were now only 70% of the population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2003 Report Share Posted April 27, 2003 Beginning March of 2002 I spent six months in China. I visited a private practitioner in Qingdao and his prescriptions came in individually sealed plastic bags a little larger than a standard teabag (and he diagnosed almost exclusively using some form of auricular probe attached to a PC). I spent a week at a pharmacy in Inner Mongolia where, as Ken suggested, bulk herbs were the norm. The surprising thing to me though was the preponderance of administering medicinals intravenously. My poor language skills prevented me from fully understanding exactly what was going into those IVs (the Baotou dialect is a challenge, especially when the Doctor is around 70 years old). I’m not sure if there was any Chinese medicine at all involved in those treatments. I asked a friend who worked there and he didn’t know specifically, but he said it was Western medicine. When I saw these IVs used for patients with a common cold I told him that we don’t have a cure for that in the West, he had no answer. One thing that I found quite amazing is the rate at which they passed out Western style pharmaceuticals, e.g. – antibiotics. Once again my friend who worked behind the counter for years (his mother was the owner) knew nothing at all about the need to complete an entire course of antibiotics. The instructions were to take them until you felt well. No one at that facility had a formal medical education. My friend’s mom who dispensed most of the non-bulk herb items had the equivalent of a third grade education. The CM practitioner was well respected, though I watched him diagnose a patient who clearly had lung cancer and he failed to mention anything about smoking. As a matter of fact, an employee in the clinic began smoking right next to the cancer patient during the diagnosis. When I quietly objected the patient laughed and said that it was fine – he smoked too. I am staggered by the idea of a nation of several billion people potentially misusing antibiotics and other meds this way. I was just thankful that the elderly patients didn’t take the quantity and variety of drugs commonplace in West. That fact alone greatly reduces the likely iatrogenic f/x of ignorance. I’d like to expand on Simon’s question and ask if anyone knows if my experiences similar to mine are commonplace in rural China. Baotou is by no means a small city by our standards and I am very alarmed at what I witnessed. -Tim Sharpe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 It is not a big argument; it is just that he represents these type of granules here in Switzerland and makes the government believe that this is the method used all over China. I have said many times that this does not seem correct to me. Before I now say that this is definitely not right, I wanted to check with you. So thanks to you and all others who have contributed a comment or two. >>>Simon even in the 85 our hospital had granules, not single herbs however. they had lots of sugar like tian qi jing. The majority of formulas were raw herbs. But patients needed long term care often used pills and granules alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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