Guest guest Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Hello All, A 37 year old male patient is hearing voices. chanting, repetitious hostile voices, always accompanied by ringing in ears and sparked by stressful situations. He is mentally restlelss and also has a lot of anger, frustration and emotionnality. His pulse is tight, like a drumskin, kidneys are tense. the tongue is swollen and pale, with a thick greasey coat. Can someone list the ghost pints for me?? I also require ideas on what to do herbally... I'd be happy to elaborate more if there are any ??'s. Thanks EtiAcuClinic: Acupuncture and HerbsEti Domb, L.Ac.1281 University Ave, Suite ESan Diego, CA 92103619.543.9280 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Dear Eti, It sounds like herbs that open the orifices would be required, like Shi Chang Pu, and herbs to pierce through phlegm blocking the heart, like Yuan Zhi, He Huan Pi/Hua and Zao Jiao Ci, etc. If there is heart fire, then Huang Lian. But you already know all these herbs...what did you think of trying? I've heard those "chanting" kinds of voices every once in a while, and it seemed related to coffee or other stimulating kinds of substances. Maybe sedate the liver and heart? Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Yes, sedating the liver and heart is a good start...I wanted some input from other practitioners since this is my first encounter with such a pattern. Thanks for your input, EtiJulie Chambers <info wrote: Dear Eti, It sounds like herbs that open the orifices would be required, like Shi Chang Pu, and herbs to pierce through phlegm blocking the heart, like Yuan Zhi, He Huan Pi/Hua and Zao Jiao Ci, etc. If there is heart fire, then Huang Lian. But you already know all these herbs...what did you think of trying? I've heard those "chanting" kinds of voices every once in a while, and it seemed related to coffee or other stimulating kinds of substances. Maybe sedate the liver and heart? Julie Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 All, In reply to a post which referred to Worsley's possession treatment but didn't remember the points... The Worsley treatment for psychological possession, as I was taught, is Ren-14.5 or so, and bilateral St-25, St-32, and St-41, creating a kind of triangle or Christmas tree shape. The usual method is reducing, and I believe this means starting with Ren-14 or 15 ashi, usually about 14.5, then begin on the right with each bilateral pair, then moving to the left needle in each pair, and needle, get some qi, twirl needle counterclockwise briefly, then leave needle alone for about 15 minutes. In my and others' experience, by the time you get to St-32, something begins to happen often. Sometimes the patient begins trembling when you needle St-32. These are considered to be seven dragons, a dragon living inside each point, and they will come to your aid if summoned by needling. If this protocol doesn't work, you can try supplementing method, but no one seems to know how to differentiate whether one has replete or vacuous possession. Joseph Garner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Hi Eti, The ghost points in I believe are used in this order: GV 26, GV 16, GV 23, CV 24, LU 11, LI 11, ST 6, SP 1, PC 7, PC 8, BL 62, Haiquan (I don't know the location but it is needled on underside of tongue while tongue is pressed onto a wooden board to stabilize it), then CV 1. This is, needless to say, not a treatment that lend itself to modern usage. I have a friend who uses part of this to treat mental aspects of certain problems and she claims some efficacy. Apart from the obvious points for phlegm heat/cold/misting the heart: PC 5 seems to have a special function of clearing phlegm from the heart. I have used this in combinations with mental illnesses and it has always helped. LI 14 is often endurated in people who have strong "spirit world" contacts, needling and strongly dispersing it (untill the hardness is gone) will often help. Traditionally it was used for people who saw or talked with ghosts. This point has been very useful for patients with voices or paranoia in regards to the spirit world (e.g., demons are trying to get me, my house/child/poodle/car is possesed, etc.). There's also a Worsley school depossession treatment which uses somewhat more user friendly points that Sun Si Miao's, but I don't recall the points. Of course, there is also the possibility that this persons house is on a bad site, that there is some sort of weird juju (in it's loosest possible sense) being put on him. Out in that neck of the woods you should be able to contact a feng shui practioner and/or a daoist priest who might be able to help on that front. Is this guy seeing a mental health professional? Is he from an ethnic or religious background where this could be an accepted phenomena? Is somebody doing a translation of Qian Jin Yao Fang? If not I'm going to have to do a half assed job of it myself. Par - Eti Domb Friday, May 23, 2003 5:13 PM hearing voices Hello All, A 37 year old male patient is hearing voices. chanting, repetitious hostile voices, always accompanied by ringing in ears and sparked by stressful situations. He is mentally restlelss and also has a lot of anger, frustration and emotionnality. His pulse is tight, like a drumskin, kidneys are tense. the tongue is swollen and pale, with a thick greasey coat. Can someone list the ghost pints for me?? I also require ideas on what to do herbally... I'd be happy to elaborate more if there are any ??'s. Thanks EtiAcuClinic: Acupuncture and HerbsEti Domb, L.Ac.1281 University Ave, Suite ESan Diego, CA 92103619.543.9280 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Julie, What does it mean to sedate the liver and heart? On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 08:26 PM, Julie Chambers wrote: > I've heard those " chanting " kinds of voices every once in a while, and > it seemed related to coffee or other stimulating kinds of substances. > Maybe sedate the liver and heart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Z'ev: Sedate the liver: calm the liver, make the rising liver yang descend (with herbs like Gou Teng, Bai Ji Li). Sedate the heart: calm the spirit (Long Gu, Mu Li, Zi Shi Ying, etc.) Julie Julie,What does it mean to sedate the liver and heart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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