[Chinese Traditional Medicine] introduction

May 27, 2003

Z'ev,

If I'm not mistaken, Attilio was responding to Alon's much vaunted appraisal of herbs as little packages of pharmacologically active biochemicals. Which of course they are. However, I believe CM herbal formulas use within their own paradigm have many advantages over attempts to use herbs for their allopathic potentials. We've visited this territory on CHA with vivid results. My commentary was to see the counter point between pharmacological effects of various biochemical molecules as compared to their in vivo physiological effects. This is where I referred to the human body's homeostatic ability to balance itself with it's own dosaging. I suggested that CM herbal formulas work to adjust homeostasis in less linear, one-to-one ways in which allopaths attempt to make pharmaceuticals work (and they end up not working as anticipated.) Eventually we got around to discussing Zheng Qi in counterpoint to Xie Qi wherein Fernando Bernal's beautiful definition actually made reference the possibility of Xie Qi arising out of prolonged use of pharmaceuticals in Western medical attempts to restore homeostasis or at least manage the imbalances. I nevertheless honor Alon's vision as true and potent.

Today, like many days, I had a vision of all the homeostatic steady state systems of individual cells interacting with each other's neighbors in very Zheng Qi ways. Imagine the billions of cells and their balanced homeostases all interacting. And then kick it up a notch and imagine the homeostatic interactions between neighboring tissues. And then go to organ interactions and then to the interactions of organ systems. Very simple adjustments have profound effects to reset these billions upon billions of interacting balances. A good night's sleep, a morning run on the beach, an hour of tai chi in the Ken Rose's garden, a delicious bowl of soup for lunch and so on. Such simple little nudges to shift these myriad of steady state systems back into the center of their balances. Kind of breaks my physiologist's heart to see people use herbs as allopathic tools. But then, hey, that's just another option, too.

Any way I thought I'd share my happy vision. Today was a gorgeous summer day in the San Francisco Bay area that ended for me with cool breezes off the Bay and an hour of tai chi with good friends.

In Gratitude,

Emmanuel Segmen

biochemist, physiologist, anatomist, herb importer/supplier

-

Chinese Medicine

Tuesday, May 27, 2003 5:12 PM

Re: [Chinese Medicine] Re: introduction

This is interesting stuff, but this is one man's research and conclusions on the mechanism of acupuncture analgesia. It hardly describes the phenomena of how herbal medicine works, or acupuncture/moxa for that matter. In other words, it is speculative and uses language that Chinese medicine doesn't use itself, such as etheric or energetic. To use one person's ideas, no matter how interesting, as a basis for discussion of the principles of Chinese medicine loses the thread of what has been established in the system already. On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 02:09 PM, Attilio D'Alberto wrote:

As Gerber (1996, p197) explains the possible mechanism of acupuncture analgesia starts from the initial acupoint stimulation (see attached file). Through the acupuncture meridian network, Qi energies are transformed into DC-current changes, which are then slowly transmitted along perineural pathways throughout the glial network. At the level of the brain, these changes in DC potential are also associated with neurochemical mechanisms (i.e. endorphin release) that may precede or coincide with the action-potential changes in individual neurons.

May 27, 2003

Emmanuel,

I certainly have no problem with your descriptions of the phenomena

of how complex herbal prescriptions work on the body, in fact I find it

quite inspiring.

My comments on Attilio's posts were directed at the overall habit

in our profession of using metaphors from other systems, whether

biomedical or vibrational healing, to explain how Chinese medicinals

work. I'd simply like to challenge people to find answers of 'how

things work' from within the discipline itself. Yes, be creative, but

from a place that is informed and consistent with what the Chinese

have bequeathed us.

On Tuesday, May 27, 2003, at 09:50 PM, Emmanuel Segmen wrote:

> Z'ev,

>

> If I'm not mistaken, Attilio was responding to Alon's much vaunted

> appraisal of herbs as little packages of pharmacologically active

> biochemicals. Which of course they are. However, I believe CM herbal

> formulas use within their own paradigm have many advantages over

> attempts to use herbs for their allopathic potentials. We've visited

> this territory on CHA with vivid results. My commentary was to see

> the counter point between pharmacological effects of various

> biochemical molecules as compared to their in vivo physiological

> effects. This is where I referred to the human body's homeostatic

> ability to balance itself with it's own dosaging. I suggested that CM

> herbal formulas work to adjust homeostasis in less linear, one-to-one

> ways in which allopaths attempt to make pharmaceuticals work (and they

> end up not working as anticipated.)

May 28, 2003

If I'm not mistaken, Attilio was responding to Alon's much vaunted appraisal of herbs as little packages of pharmacologically active biochemicals. Which of course they are. However, I believe CM herbal formulas use within their own paradigm have many advantages over attempts to use herbs for their allopathic potentials.

>>>>I agree with that in principle. However there are many " drugs" and many herbs some of each can be more or less toxic than the other

Alon

May 28, 2003

There is no doubt that many herbs are toxic, and have always been

considered to be so. However, using them properly according to

pattern, combination and preparation should eliminate most of the side

effects.

On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 10:26 AM, ALON MARCUS wrote:

> If I'm not mistaken, Attilio was responding to Alon's much vaunted

> appraisal of herbs as little packages of pharmacologically active

> biochemicals. Which of course they are. However, I believe CM herbal

> formulas use within their own paradigm have many advantages over

> attempts to use herbs for their allopathic potentials.

> >>>>I agree with that in principle. However there are many " drugs "

> and many herbs some of each can be more or less toxic than the other

> Alon

>

<image.tiff>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed

> healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate

> academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety

> of professional services, including board approved online continuing

> education.

>

May 28, 2003

There is no doubt that many herbs are toxic, and have always been considered to be so. However, using them properly according to pattern, combination and preparation should eliminate most of the side effects

>>>Agreed and there are many "drugs" that can be used safely as well

Alon