Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Hi & Hi All, > Today after much preparation, the entire CHA archive containing > over 17,000 messages is now available on the Crane website at > http://forums.craneherb.com It is still only available to the > same type of readers, licensed acupuncturists. However it is now > fully searchable using OR, AND and exact phrase parameters. It > searches the entire archive in seconds, not a few hundred posts at > a time interspersed with ads. It will be updated monthly. In > other words, we now have an archive that actually is fully > operational. I'll consider it a birthday present to CHA from > Crane. Crane has done a great service to us by preserving and > upgrading our archive. We can now be assured that the Chinese > Herb Academy will be preserved for posterity. Please visit to do > research. If you want to quote someone outside this forum, please > ask permission of the poster first. Director, > Chinese Herbal Medicine voice: 619 > 668-6964 fax: I know that your intentions were the best but I have some serious reservations about Crane Herbs hosting the CHA Archive. As I understand it, CHA is a CLOSED discussion group for AP/CHM professionals. When people join a closed group, they can be reasonably confident that their comments will be read by professionals only, and not reach the general public or commercial spammers. Unfortunately, my experience in joining the Password-Protected " Professional Area " of commercial WWW sites is that no questions are asked that any con-man or liar could not provide! This means that UNQUALIFIED people who is prepared to lie can get the password and can, thereby, access what was intended as confidential professional discussion. It also means that spammers can get the list of addresses of all correspondents to the Archive, and use these addresses for commercialo spamming. Can Crane Herbs increase tghe security of its site and ensure that only qualified professionals can access it? I, for one, would not like some of my more esoteric comments (originally directed to CHA Members, to go for general release, OR to go to the Quackuster- types who might misquote sincere but esoteric comments for their own nefarious ends! How do other CHAers feel about this? Best regards, WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland WWW : Email: < Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Email: < Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 , " " <@e...> wrote: > > Can Crane Herbs increase tghe security of its site and ensure that > only qualified professionals can access it? I believe the crane site is more restricted than is since I do not ask for proof of credentials. And anything ever posted at CHA could be already be potentially viewed by any L.Ac. that wants to join. Crane has never had any problems with infiltration or spamming. There are no email addresses viewable on the site. Their high profile will generate much more interest and membership in CHA. However, I still have total control over membership and posting, which how I currently control the spam and infiltration of the list. In four years, there have been very few infiltrations of CHA. And any quote stolen from such a private group by a quackbuster would be a crime as I understand it. However I will have the archive removed until further notice. I am surprised that you feel comfortable with , a pretty lame organization and not with Crane which is regarded as upstanding by all. I really want to have this archive access. Moving to crane has been discussed at some length before you joined the group and no one raised the objection you have. I think your fear is unfounded. I will need comment ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 , " " wrote: I really want to have this archive access. Moving to crane has been discussed at some length before you joined the group and no one raised the objection you have. I think your fear is unfounded. I will need comment ASAP. >>> : Is that level of security even possible on the internet? I've gotten hits from Crane and forums when doing a Google search. So indirect access may always be possible in some way. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Jim, Phil, and anyone who can help me understand this...please.. What is the fear? I don't mean this rhetorically or argumentatively. I don't understand what the downside risk is. Is there some liability that we are incurring by talking to each other in public that I, and others, may not be aware of? What is it precisely that anyone is concered about someone (whoever that might be) gaining unauthorized access to? Ken , " James Ramholz " <jramholz> wrote: > , " " wrote: > I really want to have this archive access. Moving to crane has been > discussed at some length before you joined the group and no one > raised the objection you have. I think your fear is unfounded. I > will need comment ASAP. >>> > > : > > Is that level of security even possible on the internet? I've gotten > hits from Crane and forums when doing a Google search. So > indirect access may always be possible in some way. > > > Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 What is it precisely that anyoneis concered about someone (whoeverthat might be) gaining unauthorizedaccess to?Ken Dear Ken and others, Like Della Lawhon, I'm excited on behalf of CHA that the archives will be given a powerful search engine. The vast amount of information is otherwise comparatively inaccessible. Imagine that any CM student or recent graduate could search the records and learn the recent history of his or her profession. What a boon it would be for a new professional to understand the context of their current professional exploits. It's like being given a map as you begin to set sail. As Marnae expressed, the only down side (or up side) is that the list or access to it would grow from 800 to 8,000 rather quickly, and keeping up would be challenging. I think that's the size of the bulk mailings that Crane and BioEssence do from time to time. But that's really okay. It just makes it a bigger town meeting. The call in shows for National Public Radio have much larger audiences than that. Wasn't it Jason Robertson last month who asked to take his answer off the air? ;-) I vote with both hands for Todd to go forward with Bill Egloff's generous gift. I'll toss in some hanging chads if it would make any difference. Emmanuel Segmen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 Emmanuel, OK. But I still don't get what there is to worry or be concerned about. I got the distinct impression that someone was concerned about losing something or some other kind of vulnerability or exposure to liability of some sort. And I still don't get what anyone is looking at in that regard. I guess I'm not just confused but incredibly dense. Your comments remind me of the chronic applicability of the old French admonition that we should be careful of what we wish for as our wishes might just come true. This is one of the reasons why I harp on words and nomenclature. It may just be that we will come to command a great deal more public attention. This always and only entails greater public scrutiny, which finds our internal confusions more and more glaringly apparent to anyone who looks. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 , " James Ramholz " <jramholz> wrote: : > > Is that level of security even possible on the internet? I've gotten > hits from Crane and forums when doing a Google search. So > indirect access may always be possible in some way. you shouldn't be able to get into a private forum even if you get hits. hackers can get in, but not the average person. but still, does that mean crane is LESS secure than ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 This is one of the reasons why I harpon words and nomenclature. It may justbe that we will come to command a greatdeal more public attention. This alwaysand only entails greater public scrutiny,which finds our internal confusions moreand more glaringly apparent to anyonewho looks.Ken Hi Ken, The nature of professional development is greater public scrutiny both from peers and the public at large. The growth and evolution that comes from such an exchange arises due to more focused intention and greater energies. Yes, you are right. It also means the internal confusions must be dealt with. What an opportunity! Can't dive off the 3-meter board unless you climb up the ladder. Emmanuel Segmen Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 Emmanuel, > > The nature of professional development is greater public scrutiny both from peers and the public at large. The growth and evolution that comes from such an exchange arises due to more focused intention and greater energies. To some extent, yes. There are other factors that come into play. I'm thinking about factors related to order of magnitude shifts in the numbers of eyes and minds focusing their attentions and energies on the profession. Although such phenomena are widely and deeply studied, I believe they remain poorly understood. Consider the question of whom the majority of the voting public considered to be president of the USA on the morning after the election in Nov. of 2000. Questions as to what the public is thinking about any given subject are difficult to answer. It can be difficult even to formulate a useful question sometimes. When a subject becomes the focus of attention of the mass media, all kinds of things start to happen, many of which were not predicted by " the subject " . My experience in dealing with media is that misunderstandings abound and are the order of the day in fact. I consider that the mass media have become more tools for directing, redirecting and miss-directing public attention than ones used to disseminate information. The dynamics of increased public scrutiny can be incredibly supportive or incredibly destructive...or something in between. What makes the arrow point in one way or the other is not always clear. As Andy Warhol predicted, we come closer and closer to widespread representation of ideas and individuals in the media until it does appear at times that each and every one of us is destined for 15 minutes of fame while the roving eye of the camera sweeps the countryside for content that will get viewers to tune in. Everyone on this list should remember that controversy is one of the most attractive themes when it comes to attracting the attention of the camera. It ranks up there with death and sex. People always want to watch a fight, and so the press always punches up the volume when the punches starte being thrown. Quackbusters have learned how to play to this strength of the media. Perhaps because our profession is bathed in an alternative lifestyles ethos that celebrates peace and harmony, we tend not to revel in the battle. But I've worked in media over a span of more than twenty years and I can report that it remains a battle, more or less constantly. If anyone is concerned about the blasting that goes on on this list, I assure you it is nothing compared to the kind of blasting that takes place when the big dogs in the media get their teeth on tasty bones. With that mixed metaphor, I will leave the subject of media wars to more coherent members of the list to address. Yes, you are right. It also means the internal confusions must be dealt with. What an opportunity! Can't dive off the 3-meter board unless you climb up the ladder. Yeah, but once you're feet leave the platform, you're training and preparation for that jump is over and there is nothing that you can do to reverse the effect of gravity. So you'd better hope that someone has put some water in the pool. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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