Conference, Yang xu heat, Sheer Complexity

[Guest guest]

I missed the conference too, tho it was only 10 miles away. did

anyone record it as they do the Pac Symp?

said:

> there is the pi wei lun on yin fire according to some. but I wouldn't

mind if

> sharon laid out one more time the pathomechanism of vacuity heat in yang

> vacuity with NO yin vacuity. I understand the absence of true yin xu

signs,

> but where does the heat come from?

 

Dr. Zheng at PCOM explained this to me, at least in summary- As Rou Gui

returns the yang... if yang is not strong enough, it floats upward. She

called it " dragon fire. " That's all the info I have.

 

Joseph's posts made my head spin, in a good way ;-) It's great to hear

speculation on TCM pathomechanism and physiology. I particularly

appreciated the channel associations- channels seem to get lost in some

people's herbal diagnoses, and hardly exist in zang fu acupuncture.

 

I understand the students' groaning and resistance to new concepts- at times

the diversity of explanations has made me wonder if TCM theory isn't more

rationalization (excuses after the fact) than realism. Not sure if that's

clear - I remember students in the clinic doing points, not knowing why, and

then rationalizing them after the fact. I haven't looked at this in

depth... but I had the same initial reaction to Robert Chu's explanations of

acupuncture meridian relationships- (e.g. taiyang-taiyin, taiyang-shaoyang,

taiyang-yangming)- turned out that each meridian was related to all but 2 of

the other 12. The sheer complexity of all the inter-relationships was mind

boggling.

 

B

 

Referring to:

 

Jeffrey Yuen talks about the gallbladder being a link to Yuan Qi because of

its dual status as curious organ and fu organ, the proposition being, I

think, that curious organs all store essence and GB points are the only

points available for a curious organ. This would certainly make it the

yiniest fu. GB always has been the odd fu out in my book, that it is paired

with the poorly understood San Jiao just makes it harder to sus.

 

In terms of channel relationships, I don't know think there are very many GB

herbs that don't have a LV channel tropism as well, but keep in mind that

there are no SJ herbs that don't also have a LV tropism! At least not in

the standard English materia medica. Chai Hu, Zhi Zi and Xiang Fu, that's

it! All of them have something to do with constraint. How that relates to

the GB I'm note sure, but it seems interesting. Since Xiang Fu is only LV

and SJ and it addresses many LV stagnation symptoms perhaps you can extend

some of GB's new status to it. Nan Jing would have us think that the San

Jiao is full of Yuan Qi, which seems pretty essential to me.

 

Forgive my ignorance, which is a big job because it is vast: Who is Nan Lu?

Are there books on his heterodoxy?

 

Par

 

 

>From Joseph Garner:

 

On Sunday morning I approached Craig Mitchell and others with some ideas I

got from listening to him and others. A few months ago I read parts of a J.

R.

Worsley book on the organ systems and channels. Most of it was pretty basic

stuff, but I focused on the chapters on the pericardium and san jiao,

because

there was information in there new to me, or at least put in a new way to

me. He

said the triple heater is called that because it regulates the heat flows in

the body--the thermostat, you might say. Like the liver and qi, the triple

heater does not create or move the heat but regulates its flow, so problems

of

heat and cold always have something to do with the san jiao, either

originating

there or originating elsewhere and affecting the san jiao.

 

Another strand of thought: the well-known author and CM expert Nan Lu stole

the show at our school's recent symposium, IMO, and he said his lineage

teaches

that you can't get yang from yin organs: you get yang from yang organs and

yin from yin organs, so there really is no such thing as kd yang xu, there

is bl

yang xu. If this is so, then the real coursing function of the liver is

actually in its yang partner, the GB. Shaoyang is SJ and GB. The SJ

regulates heat

and fluid distribution, and the GB regulates the coursing and discharge of

qi.

If a pathogen binds in the shaoyang, then you could get a situation wherein

qi is pent up, then releases, then is pent up, then releases, like a river

logjamming and bursting through. This is why qi yu symptoms come and go.

This yu

would affect the SJ's heat regulation, so you would get alternating hot and

cold, or at least alternating heat and relative normalcy of temperature, or

perhaps even alternating cold and relative normalcy. This is perhaps another

explanation for alternating hot and cold from the usual one of the pathogen

moving

more interior and more exterior, or perhaps it is the interior-exterior

movement that clogs the flow of qi and thus heat. Whew!

 

Next thought strand: If the shaoyang is the pivot or middle-flow element of

the yang depths, is there a corresponding middle-flow, or, since yang moves

and

yin is still, a middle-setpoint for the yin levels? If so, would this not be

the shaoyin, since the heart and kidney are the opposite poles of fire and

water and command the upper and lower burners, while the shaoyang commands

the

middle? So harmonizing the shaoyang and shaoyin might be the primary things

necessary to the orderly functioning of the human being, and what is most

needed

for the right relationship of yin and yang. Which might lead us to formulas

that combine such things as Xiao Chai Hu Tang and Jiao Tai Wan, or XCHT and

Gui

Zhi Long Gu Mu Li Tang, which Z'ev wisely recommended to the excessive

sweating

patient and is a marvelous and underheralded formula.

 

Next thought: In Leon Hammer's wonderful pulse book, there is a place at the

end of an early chapter where he speaks of the heart and kidneys as being

the

seat of the greatest pathogenicity that he sees in patients in America. It

is

no accident that heart disease is the number one killer. And it is, in his

experience, manifesting in younger and younger patients all the time. He

says

that adding a few appropriate heart herbs to formulas often resolves

otherwise

intransigent conditions. I would add that perhaps herbs and formulas which

harmonize the heart and kidney should be something we might want to reach

for more

often, or at least add to our formulas. Jiao Tai Wan is a good one because

it

is simple: greatly cold Huang Lian for the upper and greatly hot Rou Gui for

the lower (yang fire underneath a yin cauldron--yin and yang in right

relationship). Tastes bad, but oh well.

 

By the way, I told Craig that I alternate between being really smart and

really stupid, and I wondered if this is some sort of weird shaoyang

disorder. He

said that's just being human, but in my case I have my doubts. I think I'll

try my own advice and let you know the results.

Joseph Garner

 

 

[This message contained attachments]

 

 

 

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Message: 15

Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:43:28 EDT

acugrpaz

Wu Ling San as a Ht-Kd Harmonizing Formula

 

All,

Here I go again with tying some thought strands together and positing a

theory.

 

First strand: As I said previously, Nan Lu teaches that yin comes only from

yin organs and yang only from yang organs. He also said that to him, Liu Wei

Di

Huang Wan is more of a kd qi formula than a kd yin formula, because he pays

attention to the channels/organs individual herbs are said to go to, and

both

Ze Xie and Fu Ling go to the bladder, which he says means they strengthen

the

bladder, or the yang of the " kidneys. " Well now, the Gui Zhi in the formula

is

definitely there to mildly return fire to its source, i.e., the mingmen,

which

its " big brother, " Rou Gui, does so well. This also would definitely

strengthen the bladder yang, or at least its qi transforming aspect. As I

understand

it, Gui Zhi also can supplement the heart yang, and so can Fu Ling.

 

Now yin and yang in right relationship is yang below yin, or at least yang

within yin below yin within yang. In this scenario fluids have rather taken

over

the system, including perhaps the heart. Wu Ling San is often prescribed for

congestive heart failure. So here the heart is not overheated but

underheated,

or perhaps overcooled. So to me this is a variation on a theme--a

harmonizing

of heart and kidneys via warming the heart and supplementing the qi

transforming (hua) aspect of the bladder while draining and regulating

excess fluids

from the system. At least this is one set of the aspects of Wu Ling San.

 

To me, all the symptom pictures described in Bensky for Wu Ling San can

perhaps be described as an up-down discombobulation which can possibly be

explained

as a type of " heart-kidney " disharmony: kidney/bladder not commanding lower

burner and heart not commanding the upper, therefore up and down go into

convulsions, resulting in turmoil, sudden or otherwise: a separation of yin

and

yang. The Bai Zhu is there to strengthen and regulate the middle burner as

well as

dry dampness. And the spleen also is the pathway to strengthen the heart as

well as the post-heaven qi of the kidneys/mingmen.

Joseph Garner

 

 

 

 

Brian Benjamin Carter, M.Sci., L.Ac.

http://www.pulsemed.org/briancarterbio.htm

Acupuncturist & Herbalist

Editor, The Pulse of Oriental Medicine

Columnist, Acupuncture Today

(619) 208-1432 San Diego

(866) 206-9069 x 5284 Tollfree Voicemail

 

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