Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Excuse my paraphrasing, but one hears the expressions enduring disease damages the kidney yin and also leads to static blood in the network vessels. I was wondering how people handled these expressions in practice. Do you always treat either or both of these things in enduring disease? Or do you only treat these if they actually present with signs and symptoms. I know there are mixed views. I mostly only treat what I see. However I do have an affinity for blood quickening and will use small amounts of blood movers as a matter of course in several conditions. I am more circumspect about yin nourishing. I seem to see dampheat and phlegm wherever I look, so nourishing yin is always done carefully. Chinese Herbs " Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 , wrote: I seem to see dampheat and phlegm wherever I look . . . >>> : This year in particular, more than others? Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 In , wrote: I seem to see dampheat and phlegm wherever I look . . . >>> -- At 7:54 AM +0000 6/20/03, James Ramholz wrote: This year in particular, more than others? -- The weather in New York is exceptionally damp this year: 27 of the last 50 days have had rain -- if that means anything. Rory -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 , " James Ramholz " <jramholz> wrote: > , wrote: > I seem to see dampheat and phlegm wherever I look . . . >>> > > : > > This year in particular, more than others? > > > Jim Ramholz Why do you ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Absolutely. Unusual weather changes have a strong influence on patients' health, emotional and physicial. On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 08:54 AM, Rory Kerr wrote: This year in particular, more than others? -- The weather in New York is exceptionally damp this year: 27 of the last 50 days have had rain -- if that means anything. > > > In , wrote: > > I seem to see dampheat and phlegm wherever I look . . . >>> > -- > > > > > At 7:54 AM +0000 6/20/03, James Ramholz wrote: > > > > This year in particular, more than others? > > -- > > The weather in New York is exceptionally damp this year: 27 of the > last 50 days have had rain -- if that means anything. > > Rory > > -- > > <image.tiff> > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 , " " wrote: > Absolutely. Unusual weather changes have a strong influence on > patients' health, emotional and physicial. >>> Z'ev: Thanks for the response. People all over the country are responded as you have. Not just weather patterns, I've been trying to keep track of the annual and monthly stems and branches. This is a Ram/Goat year, so it is in part dominated by dampness, as its branch is one of the four earth signs. Since earth dominates and suppresses water, it influences what goes on in each season. Each step (as described in Unschuld's Suwen commentary) seems to be having as much influence in shaping the pulses as the typical four seasons. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 , " " > The weather in New York is exceptionally damp this year: 27 of the last 50 days have had rain -- if that means anything. >>> Z'ev: Right now I'm down in Miami, FL to do a pulse seminar this weekend at SEIOM. The weather is expected to be hot and damp in this area. It doesn't disappoint. But even in Colorado, which is semi-arid, most patients' pulses have shown increased dampness. So, I'm still expecting the Revenge Cycle of the 5-Phases to make this Fall's cold and flu season dominated by Shaoyang, with Taiyin characteristics secondary. Maybe there's something to this Chiense stuff ;-) Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 , Rory Kerr wrote: > The weather in New York is exceptionally damp this year: 27 of the > last 50 days have had rain -- if that means anything. >>> Rory: My last response to this post addressed Z'ev intstead of you. Sorry for the oversight. More than simply the weather outside, have you noticed a tendency in your patients' pulses to be more damp than expected? It seems that the quality for the year, in this case dampness because it is a ram (wei) year. Similarly to the energy of the standard four seasons, each yearly branch seems to add its own energy to the pulses. Some notes on Wei: Wei * Earth * It is the month of June. * It is the time that develops yin energy and fire energy starts weakening. * It does not show its own elemental function. It hides its own elemental function in the core, so if Wei energy is there it would not show its capacity or symptoms on the surface, but rather hides it inside. * Even though it grows further, it does not come out to the surface. It does not act as earth energy. * In comparison with the ten stems, the Yi wood energy is the manifestation of Wei energy by Yi. * Ding fire is it's parent energy, so when Ding fire is showing it's growth you can also look at Wei energy being created. * Wei carries both energies Yi and Ding. Combination of these two energies is like Wei, but when Yi and Ding don't get active as wood or fire but they can still be detected, then you can consider them as Wei. So, if there is strong energy flow between wood and fire or liver and heart there seems to be no effect then you know there is Wei type of condition. * Wei energy connects and gets active through the addition of Mao and Hai energies. * When there is Chen or Shen in itself or other elements then Wei finally gets very active. It acts as earth or the turning point between wood and fire. * If there is not enough fire energy, it can be sedated by yin metal and yin water. If the patient has this condition in winter time, he shows a tendency to energy of Bing and Ding. This includes eating habits, temperature, etc. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Denver just had two inches of rain yesterday. I think it is the amount of humidity relative to what is normal for that area that is pathological. On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 12:36 PM, James Ramholz wrote: > But even in Colorado, which is semi-arid, most patients' pulses have > shown increased dampness. So, I'm still expecting the Revenge Cycle > of the 5-Phases to make this Fall's cold and flu season dominated by > Shaoyang, with Taiyin characteristics secondary. > > Maybe there's something to this Chiense stuff ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 , " " wrote: > Why do you ask? >>> : You mention a condition that may be predicted and/or explained in part by the Suwen's account of the stems and branches and their relation to 5-Phases. Unschuld's appendix in his book on the Suwen goes into detail about this. Besides the SHL there may be other CM models that can clearly describe seasonal changes and our response to them. I'm interested to know how globally these clinical observations are seen. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 , " " wrote: > I think it is the amount of humidity relative to what is normal for that area that is pathological. >>> Z'ev: While the current day's weather certainly has an immediate influence, I'm thinking of and distinguishing it from the influences of the stems and branches as well as the basic 4 seasons on the pulse. Even on days when Denver didn't have rain, patient's pulses seemed to carry more dampness. If it was later in the year, it could be easily attributed to yin and fluids being depleted by the seasonal heat and character of the area. But, in this case, we can rule that out since it already became more evident during the early part of the year. I think we're looking at different scales of time. For example, the SHL seems most often valuable when looking at healthy people struck by acute conditions that ultimately become chronic. This all takes place within a single or---at the most---several seasons. Although some have argued that the SHL can be applied to much longer periods, I've never seen this described well. There are probably too many intervening variables to justify it on a longer time scale. The 5-Phase Revenge Cycle, on the other hand, takes an entire year to transpire. The conditions found at the beginning of the year influence what happens at the end of the year. Each step during the year brings its own character to the picture. And it closely predicts the general type of cold and flu season the year will have. Since these things are always related to the pulse, it is interesting to me to note which time cycle and which CM model is the most influential in a particular patient or in a general population of patients. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 >>>Excuse my paraphrasing, but one hears the expressions enduring disease > damages the kidney yin and also leads to static blood in the network > vessels. I was wondering how people handled these expressions in practice. > > Do you always treat either or both of these things in enduring disease? > > Or do you only treat these if they actually present with signs and > symptoms...<<< I too have had the same question. In practice what I do is treat these things if they present. If they do not, I try treating what is apparent in enduring disease, and if this does not work to my satisfaction, I will add herbs for blood stasis and phlegm in the network vessels, which usually make the original prescription work better. I have considered adding such herbs to begin with even if blood stasis and phlegm are not apparent, but so far I have not had the chutzpah to try this. Joseph Garner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 I've really enjoyed the discussion of seasonal dampness - and, Rory, happy to hear you're still near the sea.... However, I was also curious to know what everyone had to say to Todd's original question. I believe he was asking whether you tend to tonify yin and/or move blood in enduring disease, regardless of signs and symptoms, or something along those lines. Cheers all - it was great meeting so many of you at the conference! --Laurie Burton ----------------- Message: 21 Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:27:20 -0700 < enduring disease Excuse my paraphrasing, but one hears the expressions enduring disease damages the kidney yin and also leads to static blood in the network vessels. I was wondering how people handled these expressions in practice. Do you always treat either or both of these things in enduring disease? Or do you only treat these if they actually present with signs and symptoms. I know there are mixed views. I mostly only treat what I see. However I do have an affinity for blood quickening and will use small amounts of blood movers as a matter of course in several conditions. I am more circumspect about yin nourishing. I seem to see dampheat and phlegm wherever I look, so nourishing yin is always done carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 I was curious if anyone could help me with my original question, reposted below, though I did enjoy the weather tangent. , <@i...> wrote: > Excuse my paraphrasing, but one hears the expressions enduring disease > damages the kidney yin and also leads to static blood in the network > vessels. I was wondering how people handled these expressions in practice. > > Do you always treat either or both of these things in enduring disease? > > Or do you only treat these if they actually present with signs and > symptoms. > > I know there are mixed views. I mostly only treat what I see. However I > do have an affinity for blood quickening and will use small amounts of > blood movers as a matter of course in several conditions. I am more > circumspect about yin nourishing. I seem to see dampheat and phlegm > wherever I look, so nourishing yin is always done carefully. > > > Chinese Herbs > > voice: > fax: > > " Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre > minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 I was curious if anyone could help me with my original question, reposted below, though I did enjoy the weather tangent.>>>>>>I usually add blood moving in 2 occasions. first if there is symptoms and signs. and second if the disorder can benefit from increased microcirculation even when there is not symptom signs of blood stasis. As for K tonics i am much more careful and will only use them if there is clinical symptoms and signs except when treating fractures. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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