Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Joseph wrote " If yin organs control only yin and yang organs only yin, as Nan Lu teaches, this would explain why liver blood xu headaches travel along the liver channel to the vertex of the head and " liver qi " ascending problems travel up the GB channel. Joseph Garner I always wondered about that. I have had a few patients, all female, with headaches that are behind one eye, throb, and are treated like a migraine. The pain travels from the eye down the back of the neck to GB 21. Some people call those liver-yang headaches. However, this isn't strictly accurate. The patient does not necessarily have a wiry pulse, and there is not necessarily problems with dizziness, a bursting sensation, or irritability, or red eyes. Therefore, would the anchoring herbs like shi jue ming, mu li, or long gu still be indicated? Yet, the headache does seem to involve the liver. Often, the patients have blood deficiency underlying, tense muscles, a stressful lifestyle and of course, the HA involves the eyes. However, the herbs that treat liver headaches like wu yao wouldn't be appropriate. I have not yet met anyone with a " vertex " headache. The best dx seems to be liver qi stagnation creating obstruction in the GB channel. I've never seen this listed as a dx. I like to use herbs like ju hua and huang qin though, maybe along with some xiao yao san and chuan xiong, so even though I don't write down this dx it is still inferrable from the herbs I use. G SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 I'm reading the Shan Han Lun (Mitchell Feng Wiseman) and trying to relate the SHL to the discussion below. (one sided headaches / Yang Organs treating Yang) Seems the Dx should be Shao Yang Disorder and the treatment Harmonize. Yang is the upper part of the body, Exterior Channel (GB TB), Both Excess and Deficiency, Qi and Blood. Alternatives between Excess and Deficiency. Thus the pivot is out of whack and treatment would be to Harmonize. The Zhang Fu Dx would be Liver Blood Deficiency (Interior Deficient ) then Tonify. Liver Yang Rising (Interior Excess) then Sedate. Liver Qi Stagnation (Interior Excess) then Regulate Qi Rx Xiao Yao San (Harmonize Liver and Spleen) Seems neither Shao Yang Stage nor Xiao Yao San mention headaches which is the main complaint. Although headaches are indicative in all the Zang Fu presentations but if treated singularly (via Tonify / Sedate / Regulate) would not be affective treatment. I could also relate this to the discussion on Teachers and Students. How's a teacher address a students question when the student does not have the ability to articulate the question, yet is still befuddled. And who becomes more frustrated - the student or the teacher? Thanks, Ed Kasper Message: 11 Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Gabrielle Mathieu <gabriellemathieu Re: Digest Number 1471/Gallbladder Joseph wrote " If yin organs control only yin and yang organs only yin, as Nan Lu teaches, this would explain why liver blood xu headaches travel along the liver channel to the vertex of the head and " liver qi " ascending problems travel up the GB channel. Joseph Garner I always wondered about that. I have had a few patients, all female, with headaches that are behind one eye, throb, and are treated like a migraine. The pain travels from the eye down the back of the neck to GB 21. Some people call those liver-yang headaches. However, this isn't strictly accurate. The patient does not necessarily have a wiry pulse, and there is not necessarily problems with dizziness, a bursting sensation, or irritability, or red eyes. Therefore, would the anchoring herbs like shi jue ming, mu li, or long gu still be indicated? Yet, the headache does seem to involve the liver. Often, the patients have blood deficiency underlying, tense muscles, a stressful lifestyle and of course, the HA involves the eyes. However, the herbs that treat liver headaches like wu yao wouldn't be appropriate. I have not yet met anyone with a " vertex " headache. The best dx seems to be liver qi stagnation creating obstruction in the GB channel. I've never seen this listed as a dx. I like to use herbs like ju hua and huang qin though, maybe along with some xiao yao san and chuan xiong, so even though I don't write down this dx it is still inferrable from the herbs I use. G --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.491 / Virus Database: 290 - Release 6/18/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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