Lurking Pathogen

[Guest guest]

>>>>That is a complex question. How many life threating diseases do you see per day? According to some of my Chinese teachers that were involved in the development of modern TCM. Mortality would be quite high in china for not having WM. And why half their education is WM. I have just read the life story of Dr CS Cheung dad, a western GYN. And there were quite a few comments on the high fetal mortality rate at the areas he worked, until he came and practiced WM instead on local medicine. Just looking at the side-effects people get from placebo should awaken you to how difficult is to truly know morbidity.

Alon<<<

 

Alon,

Well said. There is no replacing WM or CM. I understand there is a saying in China that combining WM and CM is like walking on two legs instead of hopping along on one. There are a lot of us who would be or might be dead now if not for WM. Of course if everyone lived according to CM principles there would be a lot less need for WM to save our butts at the last minute. The main difference the WM mindset brings to the table is an emphasis on cleanliness and public sanitation and health, which has apparently done more to upgrade health than all the modern or ancient "miracles" of medicine put together. If the Chinese really cleaned up their collective act, it would revolutionize the nation's health. To close, there is no kneejerk condemnation of any medical modality that fits into reality. WM is as omnipresent and politically and scientifically powerful as it is for good reason.

Joseph Garner

[Guest guest]

Hi All, & Hi Joe & Jason

 

Jason wrote:

> The belief that anything that " lurks " in the body to create some

> havoc later is far too simplified to blindly be called a wenbing

> lurking pathogen, IMO.  But I would like to hear why you think

> this is so with BOTOX?

 

Joe replied:

> Jason, To me, it has to do with the fact that botulinum is a

> deadly toxin. It seems to me a strange and scary thing to inject

> deadly toxins into people, even in tny amounts, to paralyze parts

> of their body on purpose and expect that nothing will ever come of

> it down the road. If nothing else, they are paralyzing parts of

> channels, which creates a permanent stagnation - in the forehead,

> ST Luo, BL, and GB. Doesn't seem like a wise thing to do. I

> apologize if I used the term " lurking pathogen " inappropriately. I

> also do not like being a part of kneejerk reactions to anything. I

> hope nobody has any negative reactions to botox long-term, but I

> find it difficult to see how that will be avoided, whether it be

> pathological toxin or blocked channels or necrosing tissue. It just

> doesn't seem like an appropriate thing to do to living tissue.

> Sometimes we give people toxic herbs, but they are rarely deadly,

> and if we do give them, they are given very short-term, in a form

> that ought to go through and out of the body, not sit there for

> life. Joseph Garner

 

I agree with Joe, but have no scientific data to support that belief.

 

Mindful of the Hippocratic Oath ( " First, do no harm " ), and from

basic principles, I am reluctant to use ANY irreversible treatment

unless the risk of NOT using it seems to outweigh the risk of using

it. I would apply that principle to MANY areas - for example use of

untested vaccines in soldiers, population use of polyvalent

vaccines, use of surgical or cytotoxic chemotherapy procedures for

which the published data on prognosis or survival are poor, etc.

 

Indeed, if one were to compare the published mortality and

morbidity data for iatrogenic diseases caused by WM versus

PROFESSIONALLY used CHM, it could be argued that adherents

to the Hippocratic Oath should eschew WM and study/use CHM

instead!

 

As for " lurking pathogens " , IMO the TCM System is only the tip of

the iceberg. TCM concepts of Weiqi, Qi, Xue, Ying, etc, and their

role in repelling/controlling EPFs/IPFs misses many vital issues for

which WM has solid data.

 

For example, the role of antioxidants and balanced mineral/vitamin

nutrition is almost unknown (or at least unused) in routine TCM

practice. How many TCM practitioners (or MDs for that matter!!)

know the RDA for each essential trace-mineral and vitamin? How

many know, or can even guesstimate, the daily intake of those

nutrients by their patients? If they do NOT know these data, how

can they advise on the exact amount of supplement that will be

safe and effective to balance their patient's diet?

 

I also agree with Joe that to paralyse an area permanently (by

drugs or surgery), or to remove any organ or part unnecessarily,

causes red lights to flash in my brain. Surely stasis, and its

consequences to the affected Jng-Luo-Mai and their related

organs/functions (in the basic sense, as well as in the Sheng, Ko

and Qi Cycle) must follow such cavalier " therapy " ?

 

Finally, there is a professional/economic/knowledge reality-trap into

which most of us (TCMers, MDs, surgeons, vets, etc) fall. We ALL

need to earn our living WITH the TOOLS with which we are familiar.

Wwhat treatment do we expect if we consult a surgeon? Would it

be different if we consult an allopathic physician, an OMD, an

acupuncturist? IMO, the treatment will probably be as one would

predict!

 

I believe that the great doctors of the future will be holistic; they will

use the best of all the main systems. But I also believe that to be a

great doctor one must ALSO be OLD, because it takes at least a

lifetime to accumulate so many data and skills!

 

I'm 61 and I'm still struggling in the foothills of the Mountains of

Medical Knowledge.

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

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[Guest guest]

Mindful of the Hippocratic Oath ("First, do no harm"), and from basic principles, I am reluctant to use ANY irreversible treatment unless the risk of NOT using it seems to outweigh the risk of using it. I would apply that principle to MANY areas - for example use of untested vaccines in soldiers, population use of polyvalent vaccines, use of surgical or cytotoxic chemotherapy procedures for which the published data on prognosis or survival are poor, etc. >>>Well Eti why do you assume that giving a patient herbs does no harm? Botox should be reversible. The nerves usually regenerate. The question is if some people will develop neuropathies. I am assuming they did a lot of studies before allowing use4

alon

[Guest guest]

Indeed, if one were to compare the published mortality and morbidity data for iatrogenic diseases caused by WM versus PROFESSIONALLY used CHM, it could be argued that adherents to the Hippocratic Oath should eschew WM and study/use CHM instead!>>>>That is a complex question. How many life threating diseases do you see per day? According to some of my Chinese teachers that were involved in the development of modern TCM. Mortality would be quite high in china for not having WM. And why half their education is WM. I have just read the life story of Dr CS Cheung dad, a western GYN. And there were quite a few comments on the high fetal mortality rate at the areas he worked, until he came and practiced WM instead on local medicine. Just looking at the side-effects people get from placebo should awaken you to how difficult is to truly know morbidity.

Alon

[Guest guest]

If the Chinese really cleaned up their collective act, it would revolutionize the nation's health.

>>>Remembering some of the facilities you are probably write.

Alon