Guest guest Posted July 6, 2003 Report Share Posted July 6, 2003 Z'ev, Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It has raised another question in my mind. It has to do with the notion of following the dao and study. And it arises specifically from the chapter in the Dao De Jing that says, To study, every day you gain. To follow the dao, every day you lose. This appears as a typical Daoist paradox, an existential conundrum, at least on its surface. I'm curious to know your thoughts on the juxtaposition of study and dao and, again, concerning where such matters belong in terms of the training regimen of practitioners of Chinese medicine. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 I am personally going to try to tackle that question in a Nan Jing course I'm teaching in the PCOM doctorate program next winter. Basically, I'm teaching pulse (vessel diagnosis) and treatment strategy and referring back to the classical text as I go. I also have a Shang Han Lun course coming up based on the same approach. On Sunday, July 6, 2003, at 06:38 PM, kenrose2008 wrote: > I'm curious to know your thoughts on > the juxtaposition of study and dao > and, again, concerning where such > matters belong in terms of the training > regimen of practitioners of Chinese > medicine. > > Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 In a message dated 7/9/2003 1:30:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, zrosenbe writes: I am personally going to try to tackle that question in a Nan Jing course I'm teaching in the PCOM doctorate program next winter. Basically, I'm teaching pulse (vessel diagnosis) and treatment strategy and referring back to the classical text as I go. I also have a Shang Han Lun course coming up based on the same approach. Z'ev I just listened to your tape from the conference. Did you know that Jim and I both apply the work from chapter 5 of the Nan Jing? Dang Han style has a relatively well developed discussion regarding those materials. Classical literature is open to creative and robust application. I believe it is designed to inspire creative clinical application. For instance, the 5 depths can be divided into three burners with the lung and heart at the superfices, the spleen in the middle and the liver and kidney in the depths. This reflects a three dimensional matrix of the three burners at the cun, guan and chi as well as the three depths. This matrix can be used as a three-dimensional guide for selecting herbs or acu-moxa strategies. For instance one way to gain access to the multitude of functions for zu sanli (St 36) is to apply the five depth/tissue model. Next to the bone is water then wood-earth-fire-metal. Applying the three-dimensional model, depth is utilized the same way - so metal is further from the bone and more superficial - while water is close to the bone and deep. Application of this method will almost always affect the distortions in the pulse that reflect pathophysiological processes that are underway at a particular depth best considerations, Will Morris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Will, I am happily surprised to hear that you would take the effort to listen to a two hour tape of my lecture, . . I've always found listening to tapes a daunting enterprise. I am quite aware of the five-depth pulse method, and have trying to 'get it' for some time. I don't think I've mastered this method yet, and that is what I attempted to communicate in my talk. And, yes, we can group the heaven/human/earth tripartate pulse division as the three burner pulse division as well. I'd be interested in hearing more about your insights on Nan Jing chapter 5. As you know, I'm working on a book on the subject of the Nan Jing and pulses. On Wednesday, July 9, 2003, at 10:45 PM, WMorris116 wrote: > In a message dated 7/9/2003 1:30:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > zrosenbe writes: > > > I am personally going to try to tackle that question in a Nan Jing > course I'm teaching in the PCOM doctorate program next winter. > Basically, I'm teaching pulse (vessel diagnosis) and treatment > strategy and referring back to the classical text as I go. I also have > a Shang Han Lun course coming up based on the same approach. > > > > Z'ev I just listened to your tape from the conference. Did you know > that Jim and I both apply the work from chapter 5 of the Nan Jing? > Dang Han style has a relatively well developed discussion regarding > those materials. > > Classical literature is open to creative and robust application. I > believe it is designed to inspire creative clinical application. For > instance, the 5 depths can be divided into three burners with the lung > and heart at the superfices, the spleen in the middle and the liver > and kidney in the depths. This reflects a three dimensional matrix of > the three burners at the cun, guan and chi as well as the three > depths. > > This matrix can be used as a three-dimensional guide for selecting > herbs or acu-moxa strategies. For instance one way to gain access to > the multitude of functions for zu sanli (St 36) is to apply the five > depth/tissue model. Next to the bone is water then > wood-earth-fire-metal. Applying the three-dimensional model, depth is > utilized the same way - so metal is further from the bone and more > superficial - while water is close to the bone and deep. Application > of this method will almost always affect the distortions in the pulse > that reflect pathophysiological processes that are underway at a > particular depth > > best considerations, > > Will Morris > <image.tiff> > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed > healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate > academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety > of professional services, including board approved online continuing > education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Z'ev - this method (Nan Jing chapter 5)is a bit daunting for some because there is more minutiae involved. I see we concur on the tripartate divisions that render it an easier method to 'grasp.' I highlighted this point because in the lecture you mentioned no knowledge of other practitioners applying this method with the possible exception of Dr. Bensky. So now you know, Jim and I also maintain a passion for this passage and it's clinical application and verification. Chapter five is an extremely debatable passage. I taught a class on the practical application of the classics using this passage for a small group discussion process. It was interesting to observe the various groups taking the debate points that are in the commentary section of Unschuld's translation. Will > Will, I am happily surprised to hear that you would take the effort to listen to a two hour tape of my lecture, . . I've always found listening to tapes a daunting enterprise. I am quite aware of the five-depth pulse method, and have trying to 'get it' for some time. I don't think I've mastered this method yet, and that is what I attempted to communicate in my talk. And, yes, we can group the heaven/human/earth tripartate pulse division as the three burner pulse division as well. I'd be interested in hearing more about your insights on Nan Jing chapter 5. As you know, I'm working on a book on the subject of the Nan Jing and pulses. On Wednesday, > July 9, 2003, at 10:45 PM, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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