Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 >>>...So how about it. who wants to give up prescribing enzymes....<<< I do not support any practitioner going beyond his or her scope of practice. And within that legal limit, I don't support anyone going beyond their training and abilities. As Clint Eastwood said, "A man's got to know his limitations." If you are legally allowed and actually trained to prescribe enzymes, then do so. If not, I say don't. As long as people exceed their legal and training limitations, we will have chaos. Isn't the fundamental underlying problem here the fact that the Medical Practice Act legally gives MDs a scope of practice that exceeds their training? That exceeds anyone's possible training, for that matter. The Medical Practice Act presumes that receiving MD training gives you all possible medical knowledge somehow in some mystical way. It's an unreasonable and absurd presumption set up by laypeople and doctors at a time when everyone was so very much in awe of modern science , before all the side effects of our modern world began to be realized. I think everyone should play fair, practice within their legal scope as much as reasonably possible and certainly within their training. Here in Arizona we only have acupuncture in our scope of practice, however, I'm not going to stop prescribing herbs. But to me, that is a special situation. I do not prescribe anything I don't have actual classroom training in. I don't prescribe vitamins, enzymes, supplements, Western herbs, Ayurvedic herbs, crystal healing, trance channeling, or anything else I wasn't taught in the school and CEUs that prepared me to do my licensed practice. I have no right. It doesn't even matter to me if I do know all about enzymes and think they're great mixed in with Bao He Wan or whatever. I still won't prescribe them. I don't even think Health Concerns should be mixing enzymes with Chinese herbs. The power and value of CM is its time-tested-ness. What do we know how enzymes react with CM herbal formulas? We don't. We don't. We don't. We don't. Not for a long time. We need to do research on this stuff before we can safely and effectively prescribe any of it. Let naturopaths do what they're trained to do and do well. Let us do the same. Let MDs do the same, and veterinarians and everyone else. Everybody stick to what they know and do best, and refer out when we get beyond that, and we'll all work together to serve society instead of trying to elbow each other out of the way. I don't think naturopaths should practice CM unless they have full training to do so. I don't think MDs should, either, or chiropractors, anymore than I should do chiropractic or WM with a few hundred hours of seminars. When I'm allowed to practice modern medicine with my license and a few weekends of med school, then maybe I'll change my mind. At the same time, I think those with prior medical training should be allowed to avoid as much of the CM curriculum as they reasonably can so they can concentrate on learning what they don't know instead of relearning what they do. The law says MDs can practice whatever they want, and so I'm not going to harass MDs who do acupuncture or herbal medicine. I respect them for trying to learn more, and legally they're not exceeding their boundaries, at least not in AZ with its holistic medical doctor board. To me, when we in CM prescribe enzymes, we are breaking the rules--the covenant between us and society. I don't know all about CA law and CM and what you can and can't do legally, but ethically I think we should stick to our strengths and make the most of them--dig one well really deep instead of 100 shallow ones. Then we will be so good at acupuncture and Chinese herbs that nobody can even begin to compete with us in those worlds, and they won't try. Joseph Garner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 I guess we are relieved that naturopaths will not be allowed to practice acupuncture in CA. Personally, I have always doubted the law would pass. We'll see. I support Naturopaths to have a scope as broad as they do in oregon (which does not include acupuncture, but does include all herbal substances used anywhere on the planet plus about 1500 naturally derived drugs and even minor surgery). However they should not be allowed to use the terms TCM or chinese herbal medicne to describe what they do unless they are NCCAOM or CA board certified in this area. But to disallow the use of chinese herbs altogether by naturopaths is just plain silly. there are research based uses of many chinese herbs based upon modern physiological approaches to illness. I think Naturopaths should be able to use these herbs within their own paradigm if they are fully trained (4 year schools - no mail order). I think perhaps there is an effort within certain segments of the CA acupuncture community to sabotage this law altogether. With various forces picking away at the proposed scope of practice, all that will be left is the equivalent of an HHP (the nebulous holistic health provider), a license already easily accessible to mail order naturos. the fact is that naturos are major, major competition for L.Ac.'s, wherever they are both licensed. While not doing acupuncture, naturos have many pain control methods at their disposal, including spinal manipulation. they are truly the experts at modern phytotherapy. their classroom training in western med is as extensive as MD's. their internship is longer and much more structured than ours. In CA, despite having no significant training at all in modern nutritional therapies, we are allowed to basically practice as if we are naturos. we order lab tests and routinely prescribe enzymes, homeopathics and probiotics, etc. If naturos get licensed, they could easily give us a royal payback. It would be a simple matter to demonstrate that we are unqualified to prescribe anything but chinese herbs. Even dietary therapies other than chinese food combining are being done without training. We may see our scope reduced. so people may want to think about how territiorial to get in this fight. Ethically we all know that those doing any therapy should be fully trained in that area. We have rightly fought ND's trying to do acupuncture (though I am fine with them doing dry needle neural therapy - which is distinct from acupuncture, though similar in effects). So how about it. who wants to give up prescribing enzymes. Or even better. What if in retribution, we are attacked upon our ability to practice primary care. I went to naturopathic school myself and we did 18 credits of physical exam, 8 credits of cadaver dissection, 9 of x-ray, 9 of lab testing and so on. Literally more than ten times as much as Lac's do. We wouldn't have a leg to stand on. And how much political clout would these new licensees have? Well, I bet there are about 1000 ND's who would immediately settle in the promised land of holistic medicine. California is the holy grail for ND's. Our patients down here in the south already are inclined towards many classical naturo therapies (fasting, vegetarianism, raw foods, colonics, etc.). One of the world's most knowledgeable Eclectic style herbalist lives in orange county just patiently waiting to claim his pice of the pie. I would propose a novel idea. If this holistic medicine stuff ever catches on, I bet there are more than enough californians for all of us who want ot live here. So why don't chiros, NDs and Lacs join forces in some mega organization designed to completely change healthcare as we know it instead of endless turf wars. As long as we infight between our professions, we will just be perceived as squabbling dogs who get thrown scraps of meat when the master feels merciful. I have always felt that naturos are really the best model for leading the way to an integrative 21st centruy medicine. they are the only group that is extensively trained in western med and a broad range of holistic therapies. Most are exposed to and enthusiastic about chinese medicine. They just might be our allies. So perhaps we should support their license with reasonable restrictions where they might tread on our scope and exceed their actual training. Chinese Herbs " Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds " -- Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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