Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 In a message dated 7/14/2003 9:42:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, writes: it is my understanding that neither bastyr nor OCOM will have a required language track. those are the only other programs that are DAOM approved and there will no others for a few more years. O contrare! Emperor's College Doctorate will arrive soon...very soon. Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 I have to agree with Jason - start with the basics: Fund Theory, MM - don't try too something new. It will just frustrate you and you will not get far, ro you will misunderstand something. - I am sorry to hear that in a doctoral program PCOM will not go further than 10 credits. And I think you are wrong that other schools won't have Chinese tracks in their doctorates. I think that many will. Marnae At 02:28 AM 7/10/2003 +0000, you wrote: --- In , " facteau8 " <facteau8> > yes, but many times it would be hard for a beginner to know > what he/she would be even translating in a situation like this. Exactly that is why you have to get the basics down... Why > should students desire to translate things, not knowing what they are > looking at or where they are going with it. you can't translate until you get the basics. you need a teacher or a starter book... I agree that this is a > good way to practice and it makes sense to use such a resource, but i > would imagine most beginners desire a particular project to widdle > away at first. This makes learning more meaningful. I may be way off here, but how can you even attempt a project, when you don't even know a basic sentence structure. I am not trying to be belittling, I just believe that you seem to be looking for exotic new stuff to translate, when you don't have the ability. If you have a teacher that says, he we can work on this together and I will teach you the grammar as we go then that is another situation. But, without that in the beginning you must start with stuff that has already been done, so that you can learn the ropes. Yes this isn't exciting, but I personally think it is the best way... Again I recommend the texts from redwing that are basic theory or materia medica (or whatever you like) that have english & chinese . If it hasn't been translated yet, there is probably no way you will be able to do it... Personally I am always looking for things that have already been translated by people better than I, and learn from these. I also have 2 teachers that I work through other stuff that I don't have the English for. Maybe I am unclear of what your goal is, but that is my input, anyone else? > > > > There are numerous bookstores in california that have > > medical texts. > > I realize that their are no real shortcuts. I tried to make that > clear on my original posting on this topic. It is more than obvious > to me that the basics are essential. But, that doesn't mean that > inspiring students of chinese medical chinese should simply not worry > about finding good resources and software and instead be satisfied > with random web pages and stuff already translated. Again, Chinese web pages are for the advanced, English web pages that sell chinese books can be used by beginners. Already translated stuff is for beginners,, (IMO) Have you worked through Wiseman's books yet? I think you can also start there. They are essential. -jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 , Marnae Ergil <marnae@p...> wrote: > - I am sorry to hear that in a doctoral program PCOM will not go > further than 10 credits. And I think you are wrong that other schools > won't have Chinese tracks in their doctorates. I think that many will. > > Marnae it is my understanding that neither bastyr nor OCOM will have a required language track. those are the only other programs that are DAOM approved and there will no others for a few more years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 , WMorris116@A... wrote: > > > > O contrare! Emperor's College Doctorate will arrive soon...very soon. > > Will I heard no more apps were very far along in the approval process. Congrats, but I think you'll be the last one for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 In a message dated 7/15/2003 7:33:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, writes: and how many language credits are in the proposed program? - None - we originally attempted a language component, but had problems with that submission. Our final strategy was to whittle it down to a pain management specialty. We will then role out specialties according to our capacity. We will review such requirements as the profession moves towards doctorate as entry level. best regards- Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 , " " <@i...> wrote: > , WMorris116@A... wrote: > > > > > > > > O contrare! Emperor's College Doctorate will arrive soon...very soon. > > > > Will and how many language credits are in the proposed program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 , WMorris116@A... wrote: > > and how many language credits are in the proposed program? > > - > > None - so that makes 3 out of 4 DAOM's w/o a language requirement. I am not criticizing, mind you. You know how I feel about the necessity of this. kind of mixed. my point is that there really is not the will to make this happen even at the DAOM level. if so, why was the requirement dropped from the proposal early on and never seriously reconsidered? I hope Marnae is right and the tide will turn, but I am merely reporting things as they are and the word I get on how they will be. I think we may have to develop a separate PhD program in TCM that will meet the needs of scholars, reserachers and translators. Because the DAOM is designed mainly to produce specialty clinicians and it will not be able to meet these other needs, IMO, whatever its stated goals. However, with skillful use of technology, 10 credits at PCOM could result in some functional access to some chinese medical literature. As an aside... Wenlin tip of the day: When you look up a word by pinyin, if you type a number after the pinyin (1-4), the computer will assign the tone mark. What I have been doing is going through Wiseman's chinese Medical chinese. Starting with grammar, I am looking up various important verbs and negatives, etc in wenlin. I then can read about the definition and etymology. I can have the character pronounced for me and the computer will show me the stroke order by actually drawing the character for me. I sit there with a pad and draw the characters myself as the computer guides me. After drawing the character about 50 times and learning its radical, I am able to find it in a stroke order dictionary if I want. However I would never get from A to B w/o the computer to aid me. Those of you who are more adept or disciplined should not knock this. Far from automating ignorance, this software automates true learning. Every translator I know who has used this software says they will no longer use a stroke dictionary unless necessary. These people are far from ignorant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Will, > > None - we originally attempted a language component, but had problems with > that submission. What were the problems? Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 In a message dated 7/15/2003 5:49:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, kenrose2008 writes: > > > > None - we originally attempted a language component, but > had > problems with > > that submission. > > What were the problems? Ken - Sufficient time to accomplish the objectives was the main issue. However, our chief objective relating to integration is doing well. Candidates will have hospital priveliges. best thoughts - Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2003 Report Share Posted July 15, 2003 Will, > > Ken - > > Sufficient time to accomplish the objectives was the main issue. However, our chief objective relating to integration is doing well. Candidates will have hospital priveliges. What were the objectives? Who judged that there was not sufficient time to accomplish them? Thanks, Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Ken, What were the objectives? I don't have the documents in front of me right now, and that was two years ago. But for language it was the ability to render rough translations of journal content. Who judged that there was not sufficient time to accomplish them? The accreditors. In retrospect, they were right. IMO, for some people with particular intelligence it can be achieved readily but to render it an objective for a group of people mandates a more thorough approach. best regards, Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 , " " wrote: I think we may have to develop a separate PhD program in TCM that will meet the needs of scholars, reserachers and translators. >>> : I think this is probably the best solution, and will be agreeable to most parties. A specialty in translation will allow the student to concentrate and focus on those special needs. A few hours of course work in a broader program is a fairly diluted effort---although the characters for essential terms should be memorized. A mixed program probably won't help the person get the translation skills they really need to be proficient. >>> Far from automating ignorance, this software automates true learning. Every translator I know who has used this software says they will no longer use a stroke dictionary unless necessary. These people are far from ignorant. >>> Excellent point. It's easier and less messy than having a number of dictionaries open. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2003 Report Share Posted July 16, 2003 Jim, and Esteemed Colleagues > > > >>> Far from automating ignorance, this software automates true > learning. Every translator I know who has used this software says > they will no longer use a stroke dictionary unless necessary. These > people are far from ignorant. >>> > > Excellent point. It's easier and less messy than having a number of > dictionaries open. I refer you all to a brillian essay by Nicholson Baker in a gem of a little book called The Size of Thoughts (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/- /0679776249/qid=1058408650/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-0098460-2266209? v=glance & s=books & n=507846) in which the writer discusses the demise of the library card catalog that occurred with the advent of the computerized cataloging systems. Convenience is wonderful and makes us weak. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 Ken, The size of human thought is precisely what I warn my students about when studying basic or medical science. We tend to categorize and describe things in the manner and on a scale in which a human mind can grasp them. All such constructs "shatter perfectly" ... a quote from one of my own poems. If you look carefully, you'll get to see the pieces of your own broken heart or shattered concepts slip through your peripheral vision back into the larger realm of the universe precisely from where we gathered them. We constantly gather little pieces of the whole to place neatly before our vision to "understand" the world which is far too much for the human mind to grasp. I appreciate your warning regarding "convenience". When asked what technologies I bring into the class room for my students, I usually say, "good texts, chalk, dissection tools and three cadavers." The intention of the administration is that I bring computers which I consider a fabulous was of time, energy and potential salary. I do use a microscope hooked up by a video cam to a TV set. Then the whole class can see histology slides, and I can rant like an old hippie about "the colors ... can you dig the colors?" Now that's fun technology. Fundamentally, it's in the practice. I ask my students if they can recognize their mother's face. How long did that take? It's all in the practice. Clearly, I've finally moved on from pharmacological dosaging versus physiological dosaging. But if Jim Ramholz is right about the five season revenge cycle, I'll eventually be returning to that thread with a vengeance. :-) In gratitude, Emmanuel Segmen - kenrose2008 Wednesday, July 16, 2003 7:27 PM Re: wenlin and translation Jim, and Esteemed Colleagues> > > >>> Far from automating ignorance, this software automates true > learning. Every translator I know who has used this software says > they will no longer use a stroke dictionary unless necessary. These > people are far from ignorant. >>>> > Excellent point. It's easier and less messy than having a number of > dictionaries open.I refer you all to a brillian essayby Nicholson Baker in a gem of a littlebook called The Size of Thoughts(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679776249/qid=1058408650/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-0098460-2266209?v=glance & s=books & n=507846)in which the writer discusses thedemise of the library card catalogthat occurred with the advent of thecomputerized cataloging systems.Convenience is wonderful and makesus weak.KenChinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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