Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 Hi All, & Hi Matthew, Matthew wrote: > I think we may need a definition of " standardized/cookbook " > approach. It does NOT necessarily mean " no TCM content " or " no > theoretical basis. " Of course, the formulae used in cookbook > approaches are usually adapted from TCM, as well as other sources > such as research, clinical experience, etc. Agreed 100%; I tried to develop that point in my last mail. Chinese medical classics [or for most of us, their translations] and their more modern versions (commentaries, textbooks, clinical papers based on Chinese theory) are the MAIN wells from which we MUST draw the water-of-knowledge for our study and use of Chinese medicine. De facto, [until a similar depth of new knowledge/experience arrives], broadly-based AP or Herbal Cookbooks MUST reflect data drawn from those sources. > Since TCM was the only approach to acupuncture for so many > centuries, it is likely that all trials will continue to have at > least vestiges of " TCM content " for years to come. I have been > subscribing to several Chinese-language acupuncture journals for > years, and have seen the TCM content dwindle. That, too, is inevitable; indeed the Law of Change inself predicts that!: All Changes, yet Nothing Changes! The principle of Cycles (implying Change, Revolution, and Return to the Same Position) is implicit in the Law of Change - birth - death - rebirth, etc. That said, HOW can SMALL-ANIMAL practitioners practice TCM- AP? There is little if anything written in ancient texts on the Organ- Channel-Points system of cats, dogs, or lab animals! That does not deter vet acupuncturists from using principles derived from HUMAN AP and transposing it to SA patients. However, SA vets make very significant ADAPTATIONS to the human point locations. For example, I think that Are Thoresen was the first vet to " relocate " the distal points on the LU, LI, LV and SP Channels one place lateral to their human locations. When Are suggested that " heresy " , many TCM-focused vets thought him to be misguided. But those of us who " relocated " to Are's positions, for example for LI04 and LV03, very quickly found that HIS locations induced the clinical effects that one would attribute to their human counterparts. Similarly, the horse (with ONE digit), posed special problems for equine AP vets. There are NO ancient texts [to my knowledge] that give Channel and Point locations in horses like those of humans. Yes, there were traditional Chinese equine charts [with some descriptive text], but they referred to isolated points, not on a Channel system. Did that deter modern equine acupuncturists from developing a very effective AP system for horses? Not at all!. Starting with a paper by Marvin Cain in 1984, we transposed human principles (as best we could, taking the bizarre anatomy of the horse relative to humans) to horses. And it worked well. Today, there are a few versions of equine-point transposition charts in use, the best (IMO) being those of Emiel van den Bosch and Jean-Yves Guray. Then Are Thoresen proposed another " heresy!. He described " his locations " for the 12 Jing-Well Points in the horse. He placed them at the hoof-hair junction in the same sequence as they fall on the human Wrist crease - from medial to anterior to lateral - LU - LI - TH (straight ahead) - SI - HT and PC between the bulbs of the fore- heels, with similar extrapolated positions on the hindlimb - from medial to anterior to lateral - SP - LV - ST (straight ahead) - GB - BL, with KI between the bulbs of the hind-heels). His first paper on the topic went so far as to suggest that novices who could locate the most abnormal point in one of these 12 locations could induce excellent clinical results by needling that point! Few of us believed Are at first. This was too simple! It could NOT be correct! But, as colleague after colleague studied Are's method (and went to see him in action) many of us now agree that he had discovered a powerful system for horse AP. But do SA- and Equine- vet acupuncturists use real TCM? IMO, definitely not, because such methods simply were not described in TCVM! In that respect, Quackbusters (who recognise that fact) are correct. But Quackbusters are way off the mark when they claim that vet AP has no basis in reality, especially in its clinical importance! Matthew also wrote: > Perhaps some of the other list members who regularly use a > " standardized approach " would like to offer a definition? Phil? Matthew, I will defer to others on the Lists for the definition, but I give the following as EXAMPLES of standardised approaches: (1) Treatment of vertebral disc-disease in the dog with ANY of the following protocols: AP at LV03, bilateral [Are Thoresen?] AP at GB34, bilateral [Jan Still and Jen-Hsou Lin's team, independently] AP at Si03 + BL62 + most sensitive paravertebral local Pts [one suggestions from human sources] AP at Ahshi points + GB34 + BL23 + BL11 For neck: add GB20 + GB21, or human equivalent of " Handpoint Neck " [between the lower heads of metacarpals 2-3] For Thorax: add GV14 + BL40 For Lumbar area: add BL29 + BL40 Any NSAID (at stated dose/day (mg/kg LW) + enforced rest (in a play-pen) (2) ANY of the following to treat ulcerative colitis in humans: Any specified AP protocol Any specified herbal protocol Any specified WM protocol For UC + visible blood in stool: add: Any effective haemostst herb, such as Sanqi or any specified WM haemostat In summary, I agree with Matthew that " Standardised Tx " (including Cookbook AP) can embrace many key principles of TCM, or WM. It can be repeated faithfully by different clinicians in different places, and offers a great tool to assess the benefits (or otherwise) of AP, Herbal Med, or WM. Best regards, WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland WWW : Email: < Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Email: < Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 In summary, I agree with Matthew that "Standardised Tx" (including Cookbook AP) can embrace many key principles of TCM, or WM. It can be repeated faithfully by different clinicians in different places, and offers a great tool to assess the benefits (or otherwise) of AP, Herbal Med, or WM. >>>>>>>>>Fascinating discussion Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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