AP does not strengthen Xu (vacuities)?

[Guest guest]

Hi All, & Hi Jason,

 

I am sending a copy to Are Thoresen [Norway], in case he is not a

CHA Member and would like to respond.

 

Are, if you are not a member of CHA [Traditional Chinese Herbal Medicine], you

may wish to join by sending a BLANK email to

<Subscribe-Traditional Chinese Herbal Medicine >, or you

may wish to pass your comments to me and I will relay them to

CHA.

 

wrote:

> I ...doubt the ability of AP to actually strengthen vacuities… I

> see it able to move qi, calm the spirit (etc) very well, hence this

> is why people feel better so quickly, and also why it usually

> doesn't last that long…

 

I agree that the AP can Move Qi & Calm Shen. However, IMO, it

also acts to Move Stasis (Qi & Xue), Calm Wind, Open Orifices,

Release Water, Expel Toxin, Resolve Swelling, Release Heat, etc -

most of the actions that we expect from CHM.

 

Jason, if you are correct, why do the AP texts mention: " in Xu use

Bu; in Shi use Xie " ? Why do they mention reinforcing and draining

methods?

 

Why do they mention the Mother Point (and Ko & Sedation Point)

for each Channel? Why do they list acupoints for Blood-Xue, Wind-

Feng? Why do recent research papers mention immunomediating

points?

 

I am especially interested in your comment:

> again if it was so powerful, why don't the Chinese use [AP] for the

> serious diseases… Jason

 

Do they not? Do they not use it in stroke victims, polio-paralysis,

etc?

 

Some vet colleagues, especially Are Thoresen [Norway] tell me

that they gets useful clinical results with AP in cancer patients

[animal and human]. Here, and in other degenerative diseases

where there is lack of Control " , Are uses the Ko Cycle a lot. He

does so on the principle that cancer is an uncontrolled growth of

cells, and that use of the Grandmother (Ko) point of the relevant

channel, or the Ting Point of the Controlling Channel can " Bring

Control " in the affected Channel-Organ System.

 

Are, would you like to comment on your cancer protocols in more

detail, maybe giving 3 specific examples, say how you tackle a

mammary, LV and prostatic cancer? If you use methods alongside

AP in these cases, can you describe those methods also?

 

Jason, IMO, AP can strengthen Xu, if only by Moving Qi-Xue and re-

establishing the normal flow of Qi-Xue in the Jing-Luo-Mai. Once

that occurs, normal sources of Qi-Xue [air + food] can be utilised

more efficiently, and strengthen Xu in time.

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

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[Guest guest]

, " "

<@e...> wrote:

 

>

> I agree that the AP can Move Qi & Calm Shen. However, IMO, it

> also acts to Move Stasis (Qi & Xue), Calm Wind, Open Orifices,

> Release Water, Expel Toxin, Resolve Swelling, Release Heat, etc -

> most of the actions that we expect from CHM.

 

I agree, all of these are reducing or moving ideas, which is what I

think acu is best for...

 

>

> Jason, if you are correct, why do the AP texts mention: " in Xu use

> Bu; in Shi use Xie " ? Why do they mention reinforcing and draining

> methods?

>

> Why do they mention the Mother Point (and Ko & Sedation Point)

> for each Channel? Why do they list acupoints for Blood-Xue, Wind-

> Feng? Why do recent research papers mention immunomediating

> points?

 

These are good questions, and can't say I have an answer… but just

b/c an ancient or modern text says something does not make it true...

There are many things from classical CM that has panned out not to be

true…

i would like to see an anemic patient (xue xu pattern) get better

with just acu… (esp at 1 time per week)… I think acu is based on a

lot of theory, which is not truly grounded in reality. (just my

opinion)… any `valid' research papers that demonstrate

supplementation I am open to see…

 

>

> I am especially interested in your comment:

> > again if it was so powerful, why don't the Chinese use [AP] for

the

> > serious diseases… Jason

>

> Do they not? Do they not use it in stroke victims, polio-paralysis,

> etc?

>

Again these are purely reducing and moving issues… These are what, I

have said, acu is best at…and again there are always exceptions to

the rule, I am not saying any of my statements are for 100% of

situations. My contentions is this, in the hospitals, the majority

of internal medicine cases get herbs not acupuncture, this is what I

am going on. Internal medicine books clearly emphasize herbs not

acupuncture. One can claim political conspiracy, or whatever, but I

am just siding with the facts (as I currently know them) and that is

it… There will always be acu clinics in town that treat everything

under the sun, just as crystal healers can treat anything. But I

choose to side with the majority of information and statistics. But

don't get me wrong, I think acu is extremely useful, I use it

everyday, and my patients love it…

 

>

> Jason, IMO, AP can strengthen Xu, if only by Moving Qi-Xue and re-

> establishing the normal flow of Qi-Xue in the Jing-Luo-Mai. Once

> that occurs, normal sources of Qi-Xue [air + food] can be utilised

> more efficiently, and strengthen Xu in time.

>

 

That sounds nice, and it may be true, but I personally have not seen

this in serious cases of xu. Most people who are really xu can't be

moved b/c they have no qi… your scenario almost implies that there is

a level of stagnation that must be contended with, and acu is great

for that… But let's talk xu - let's take osteopenia for example, a

clear (objective western) xu… I would love to see acupuncture reverse

this…

 

Phil if you had cancer, would you feel comfortable with just doing

acu...? I am just very skeptical of any results from 'norway' that

say they are curing cancer with just acu in humans, let us see the

evidence...this is scary...

 

Furthermore, I would bet that i.e. the insomnia cases that Todd

mentioned that improved with acu alone, were prob excess patterns.

It seems that all of the other cases that he mentioned (i.e. pms,

bloating etc) were all one's usually resolved with moving therapies.

I am open to any `evidence' of the contrary, not just theoretical

ideas, b/c I have studied all of this… thanx phil for your ideas, I

will contemplate them some more…

 

 

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