Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Dream on, dream on. What school was it on the West Coast that folded last year? Oh jeez, now I'm defending the schools... I could say a lot about the schools but this is not the best forum to do so. What I see is this. After 1989 a lot of Chinese practitioners really, really wanted to come to the West. And the boom in schools and acupuncture awareness meant a number could get these jobs here. $400 a month seemed like a lot for someone earning 400 yuan a month although it took a couple months here to realize how low it was. It meant a few years of servitude in exchange for a green card. Most of those in this position, I've seen do very, very well once cut loose to practice in the community. These are the elite of Chinese people, best educated, smartest etc... and I saw them take their new status in the West with a mix of resentment and gratitude. Many of these stay on in the schools to teach one or two classes. Yes, some do so to suck students into their practice but some only because they like to teach and be around their friends a few hours a week. (Perhaps, lately, the economy in China means that there are actually more opportunities and more hope in China. With a slow down in the schools also I see less of this type of exchange going on.) The advantage of part-time teachers is that you get an exciting mix of ideas. And you don't need to find teachers who are strong in all fields. I think the students benefit greatly from this. Yours for the flaming, doug > I agree, this makes sense... I also found it quite annoying when part- > time teachers ended up recruiting students as patients, oh but they > usually did give a 10% discount (or something)... lame... > > - > > > > > Agreed, But the schools need something that they don't have... A real > clinic/ hospital to actually see patients. And with that maybe some > clinical trials can show that we can preform on this level... > > - > > > > Re: Re: doctors and patients > > I have agreed and championed this idea for some time. Clearly we need > TCM hospitals in the West to move to another level of patient care. > Stuart Watts has also talked about this necessity for a long time, and > I believe Bob Flaws is presently attempting to develop this type of > project. Alas, funding is difficult to come by for such things. > > > Too bad they do't do that for their other campuses. I've watched far > too > many filter through NY being paid less to teach than I get teaching > children > herbal afterschool programs. > > Karen Vaughan > > > > I agree that teaching is its own profession. To be good at it is a > different set of skills than being a good clinician. To be good at it > also takes just as much education and experience as being a clinician. > As I teach around the U.S., I would say that there are many good > clinicians teaching at U.S. I would not say that there are many good > teachers teaching at U.S. schools. (Please note the word " many. " I > did not say " any. " ) > > $50 per hour X 30 hours per week seems like a decent wage to me in > terms of someone with the knowledge, experience, and skill set of a > " professor " or senior teacher of CM. That would leave ample time to > write/publish, lecture, consult, edit, translate, etc. on one's own. > Seems to me a person with the right skill set could earn $100K per > annum this way. Perhaps $100K is insufficient in SoCal, but I think > it's ok in many other areas of the U.S. Just as a for instance, if I > earned $60-70K in teaching salary for 30 hours work per week, I would > easily top $100K in cumulative royalties alone. > > Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 , wrote: > Dream on, dream on. What school was it on the West Coast that folded > last year? > Oh jeez, now I'm defending the schools... I could say a lot about the > schools but this is not the best forum to do so. What I see is this. > After 1989 a lot of Chinese practitioners really, really wanted to come > to the West. And the boom in schools and acupuncture awareness meant a > number could get these jobs here. $400 a month seemed like a lot for > someone earning 400 yuan a month although it took a couple months here > to realize how low it was. It meant a few years of servitude in > exchange for a green card. Most of those in this position, I've seen do > very, very well once cut loose to practice in the community. These are > the elite of Chinese people, best educated, smartest etc... and I saw > them take their new status in the West with a mix of resentment and > gratitude. Well, in my experience this is far from true... Your statement is too broad... YEs a few of the Chinese may be elite in China, but there are large number who are only mediocre at best. Sometimes they admit this, and sometimes it was just evident. Many had very questionable degrees, and posed as something that they were not... They (the majority) are definitly not the Elite of China... Many of these stay on in the schools to teach one or two > classes. Yes, some do so to suck students into their practice but some > only because they like to teach and be around their friends a few hours > a week. (Perhaps, lately, the economy in China means that there are > actually more opportunities and more hope in China. With a slow down in > the schools also I see less of this type of exchange going on.) > > The advantage of part-time teachers is that you get an exciting mix of > ideas. And you don't need to find teachers who are strong in all > fields. I think the students benefit greatly from this. > Yours for the flaming, > doug > I am really unclear what your point is in reference to what I said, please explain... My statement has nothing to do with CHinese, nothing to do with schools making money... It is clearly this: I find it poor taste, to stick around a school, teach 1-2 classes and actively recruit students, period... Personally I found those (part- time) teachers to be the least educated, and offered the least when it came to actually information. ALthough I am sure they are seeing more patients than a full-time teacher, there was usually no comparison in teaching. But there are always exceptions to the rule... - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 <@h...> wrote: I > find it poor taste, to stick around a school, teach 1-2 classes and > actively recruit students, period... Personally I found those (part- > time) teachers to be the least educated, and offered the least when > it came to actually information. I agree that this is in bad taste. And I guess, as I was trying to point out, it shows that there is a mutually exploitative relationship going on. What I saw was teachers after 5 years of teaching and a green card establishing really successful practices and I am happy for them. My reference to the " elite " as not the elite of Chinese doctors (although a number of my friends probally are). It is simply that 5 percent of Chinese people go to any sort of college. If I switch into talking about Asian practioners its because they give the best example of the dilemna of getting experienced clinicians to teach. Now a decade later there are more and more experienced teachers and clinicians. PCOM seems to have made the committment to hire these people fulltime. Other schools, as I was trying to establish, had in the past used an economic model where these practices are neccesary for survival. Just as there are few 's and 's there are also few Gouliu Liu's and (in LA) Huabing Wen's and Jiling Hu's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.