SHL-line 1

[Guest guest]

 

At 9:21 AM -0700 8/12/03, wrote:>2. the absence of heat effusion as a defining feature of taiyang. in fact heat effusion is a defining feature of wind strike as noted in clause 2, but not in cold damage as noted in clause 3. so the classic of feverish diseases does not require fever to be present to make the dx. On the other hand, as we will see, high palpable fever can still be part of taiyang as well.I may be reading this wrong but I'm not sure what you mean when you say, "....so the classic of feverish diseases does not require fever to be present to make the dx"

 

Are you referring to the Wen Bing? (classic of feverish diseases). As I'm sure you know, Shang Han Lun can be translated as "Discussion on Injury by Cold". It might be helpful to get a few big historical brush strokes in order here. The Shang Han Lun was written by Zhang Zhong Jing in the Han Dynasty (appx 250 C.E.)and focused on the types of diseases afflicting the population at the time. Because of developing technology in the heating of homes and a possibly colder climate in north China (and a variety of other causes), diseases of a cold nature were predominant.

 

Fast-forward appx. 1200 years to the Ming dynasty as wave after wave of epidemic disease ravaged China. During this period, a school of thought associated with Ye Tian Shi came to be called the "School of Warm-Febrile disease". It is from this time, based on new needs due to changing epidemiology, that the Wen Bing "Classic of Feverish Diseases" comes.

 

This basic historical perspective is likely well known to most readers on the list. I'll just throw this out there to get it on the front burner as we get started.

 

respectfully

jdr

 

Jason Robertson, L.Ac. Ju Er Hu Tong 19 Hao Yuan 223 Shi Beijing, Peoples Republic of China

home-86-010-8405-0531cell- 86-010-13520155800

 

 

[Guest guest]

, Jason Robertson <

kentuckyginseng> wrote:

 

>

 

> I may be reading this wrong but I'm not sure what you mean when you say,

" ....so the classic of feverish diseases does not require fever to be present to

make the dx "

 

Jason

 

When I went to school, the only translation of the shang han lun was a new

world press edition called:

 

Treatise on Febrile Diseases Caused By Cold 500 cases ~ Zhang Zhongjing ~

 

this is still a good book as it contains good commentary and good cases. the

translation terminology is not wiseman. It is connotative rather than literal

denotative. It was careless of me to use this old title without clarification

for

those who were not familiar. While I knew exactly what I meant and did

indeed refer to the SHL by this title, I certainly see how it could be confused

with the warm disease school if one with unfamiliar with this wording. On the

other hand, connotative translation are interesting in that they often convey

the author's interpretation. While it is important to me to know that shang

han lun literally means cold damage classic, it is also relevant that a

connotative translator used the term feverish disease in this way as it implies

that is how he thinks of these conditions. Many of my teachers thought of the

book this way as well.

 

But the more fundamental question is how essential fever or heat effusion is

for making a taiyang diagnosis. Apparently not at all for cold damage.

However should we should assume that a taiyang cold damage disorder will

eventually manifest heat effusion if left unattended. Mitchell writes that a

more robust yang exuberant person will develop fever quicker. so even

though this starts out with no fever it will become one. so even this initial

onset pattern is the beginning of a " feverish disease " in that loose sense of

the

term.

 

[Guest guest]

, " " <@i...>

wrote:

, Jason Robertson <

kentuckyginseng> wrote:

 

>

 

> I may be reading this wrong but I'm not sure what you mean when you say,

" ....so the classic of feverish diseases does not require fever to be present to

make the dx "

 

Jason

 

When I went to school, the only translation of the shang han lun was a new

world press edition called:

 

Treatise on Febrile Diseases Caused By Cold 500 cases ~ Zhang Zhongjing ~

 

this is still a good book as it contains good commentary and good cases. the

translation terminology is not wiseman. It is connotative rather than literal

denotative. It was careless of me to use this old title without clarification

for

those who were not familiar. While I knew exactly what I meant and did

indeed refer to the SHL by this title, I certainly see how it could be confused

with the warm disease school if one with unfamiliar with this wording. On the

other hand, connotative translation are interesting in that they often convey

the author's interpretation. While it is important to me to know that shang

han lun literally means cold damage classic, it is also relevant that a

connotative translator used the term feverish disease in this way as it implies

that is how he thinks of these conditions. Many of my teachers thought of the

book this way as well.

 

But the more fundamental question is how essential fever or heat effusion is

for making a taiyang diagnosis. Apparently not at all for cold damage.

However should we should assume that a taiyang cold damage disorder will

eventually manifest heat effusion if left unattended. Mitchell writes that a

more robust yang exuberant person will develop fever quicker. so even

though this starts out with no fever it will become one. so even this initial

onset pattern is the beginning of a " feverish disease " in that loose sense of

the

term.

--- End forwarded message ---