In the wilderness

[Guest guest]

I'll appreciate what folks on this list have to

say about it. And I'll continue to try and

summarize the contents of the week-long

get together. But it will take a little time

 

>>>>Another question is why did things change the way they did? We constantly

hear that CM has been practiced for many thousands of years and that is proof of

efficacy. Why then things have changed so much in these years? Why does it look

so different today than then it did? Why even in neijing it had already says

that the art has been lost?

We also need to remember that the changes have started long ago and it is not

only so-called TCM or western influence that has done this.

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

Alon,

>

> >>>>Another question is why did things change the way they did? We

constantly hear that CM has been practiced for many thousands of

years and that is proof of efficacy. Why then things have changed so

much in these years? Why does it look so different today than then it

did? Why even in neijing it had already says that the art has been

lost?

> We also need to remember that the changes have started long ago and

it is not only so-called TCM or western influence that has done this.

> Alon

 

Good questions. One of the things

that resulted from this week in the

wilderness was lots and lots of questions.

 

I can't begin to answer the questions

you raise about changes, except to point

out that one of the strategic principles

that lies at the root of Chinese thought

and thus Chinese civilization and culture

is the notion of change as the universal

constant. The durability of Chinese artifacts

of human consciousness, ranging from ephemeral

ideas to Great Walls and Grand Canals...

and everything that can be described as

falling somewhere in between, seems to be

inextricably linked to, in fact rooted in

this notion of change as a governing principle.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Dear Ken et al,

 

I like so many others am fascinated by how the beautiful tapestry of

Chinese medicine and the development of Chinese philosophy developed.

However, is it not presumptuous to analyze or " predict backwards " , (sort

of like carbon 14 dating is used to predict the age of an object or date

an event, not considering that other extreme atmospheric phenomena and

influences (floods, meteors, extreme temperature shifts, etc) might speed

up or slow down the accuracy of the dating- just an analogy I'm giving,

so don't lose my thought) what was, and what was lost in Chinese

medicine.

 

Therefore, I have two observations: one, to call medicine " Chinese " is

to visualize a small city or state with specific mores, customs, and

habits. But how can we possibly consider tbe people living in an area as

vast, with sooo many cultures, peoples and individual ethnicities to

practice " Chinese medicine " ? We know, of course, that only with the

advent of Mao and the communists did a specific path of acupuncture

become the " national " medicine, but what about the completely different

approach of Master Tong? What about the many other methods and traditions

in China, and outside of China, proper? Just like with the passage of

time bio-species are lost, unless we become the stewards of nature and

preserve them, so too with medical traditions, is not our mandate today,

to preserve, record and promulgate those medical traditions that are

received. Therefore, just like with any rich culture, we need to build

from the past to bestow the gift of our tradition to our children.

 

Second, is not the real gift of Oriental medicine, the different mindset

that it gives us, and is not that its real uniqueness its ability to get

us to think about the body in a more global, integrative and quantum

sense. This very old paradigm is truly revolutionary to Western

Cartesian medicine, and this IMHO is how we need to speak in a

macro-sense of " Chinese medicine. So, of course, we need to preserve and

learn from what we have inherited from the past, but to theorize as to

whether or not the minutia that we have today is truly chinese medicine,

I think misses the point.

 

Please correct me if you think that I am missing something.

 

Yehuda

 

 

[Guest guest]

Are,

There are still healers who see, we all have our gifts. I think in our

society those who can see are afraid to talk about it for fear of being

labeled as crazy. Carolyn Myss has written many books on Medical

intuition, which is surely a form of " seeing " . My great-great

grandmother was a faith healer. My mother tells the story of a family

with an epileptic child who asked for her help. She said there was

nothing she could do to help. A day or two later, the child had a

seizure while standing next to a well and fell in and died. My

grandmother foresaw this event. Children can see and speak of it but

loose the ability or are discouraged to discuss it. A colleague of my

mother's took her son to see Ground Zero in New York. Her 3 year old

asked, " Why are all their faces bloody? " we just have to encourage our

children to continue to see and not look at those homeless people

walking down the street as crazy, for surely they can all see, and that

is why they are on the street. These are just two example of thousands

that exist out there.

 

Colleen

 

 

Dear All,

well, all things change. I would have been more worried if it did not.

And of course it changes, just as our knowledge and perception of the

world does, as it does also in the east. The " art " is lost; yes, that

indicate an early state of mind including clairvoyance or psychic

abilities we today only can dream about. In old times diagnosis was made

mostly on that, and the healers could " see " . Then this ability faded,

and then they had to write it down and make systems of it, just like in

religions. When people could observe the spiritual world it was not

necessary to write it down. So also with medicine.

But it is possible to regain such capabilities.

Are

[Guest guest]

Dear Colleen and Are,

 

Also consider our incredible hands as proprioceptors. As we treat our

patients as vital beings and not just pieces of meat, I feel that we

" hear " them better, become more enegetically sensitve to their qi,

and hopefully, to our own as well. I don't think that there is any

question, that the more you put into each patient, from yourself, the

more you get out (Unless, of course, you want to do only workers' comp,

see 50-100 patients a day, and see making lots of money as your priority.

)

 

sincerely,

 

Yehuda

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ken,

 

Enjoy your refuge in NM. Think gently. " Impossible " things are not

accomplished with thought (imo). Don't let the likes of Z'ev and Emmanuel push

you too hard. You have much to discuss with Bob Felt. Back in the 70s, Michael

Broffman used to explain the yearly cycles with regard to Bushido philosophy.

In the winter the superior warrior takes refuge and retreat by the ocean, lives

simply and meditates on strategy. In the spring he/she climbs the pathways up

the mountains along side the babbling streams. By summer the warrior stands on

top of the mountain and celebrates his/her victories and accomplishments. In

the autumn, the warrior throws off the wreaths and medals of accomplishment,

lets go of all projects, and heads downhill following the babbling streams to

the sea. The idea that Michael was trying to convey is that there is a timing

and synchronicity for everything. We are in the time now when the trees

courageously release their leaves ... the very source of their nourishment.

It's a time of loss and letting go. It's okay to let go and to endure loss.

It's even okay to take pleasure in restraint ... to enjoy one's simple

austerities. I'll occasionally post a golden oldie of Ken Rose " ineffability "

just to maintain the basic nourishment of us teeming masses here on CHA.

 

To your good health and good mood,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

-

kenrose2008

Thursday, September 25, 2003 2:51 PM

Re: In the wilderness

 

 

Emmanuel,

 

I certainly don't disagree with your

sentiments concerning the importance

of living teachers. That bit about

Martin Inn that you put up the other

day fairly reflects my attitude.

 

I can't speak to what Paul Unschuld

has in mind. I am thinking out loud

on this subject, and I hope that no

one minds that.

 

I have a lot of things in mind, and

am simply trying to work through them

and sort them out.

 

Z'ev's just raised several compelling

questions, and now I've got yours to

mull over. So I'm just going to think

about it for a while.

 

Ken

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel,

 

I don't know if it's your posts or the afternoon

sun here in Taos, but something is making

me blush.

 

Oh well.

 

Many of us who spent the week with Paul

Unschuld recently were sent spinning into

a state of ecstatic confusion. Nice of you

to notice.

 

I am an advocate of living in harmony

with the changes of the seasons, but

I think that when we take into consideration

the influences of the five movements and

the six qi, we must calculate the timing

and position of each and every situation

depending upon its unique circumstances.

 

If it gets suddenly and unseasonably warm

in the autumn, one is ill advised to wear

heavy sweaters. Yet, Cheng Man Ching

pointed out to his students as he was

leaving New York for the last time that

among the three secrets of long life were

" do not change your clothes too quickly

when the weather changes with the seasons. "

 

Then there is the story of the fellow who

thinks that it must be terribly difficult to

get up on a tiger and ride it. But when he

has accomplished this feat, he discovers

that the truly hard part is getting off.

 

Thank you, indeed, for your meditative

massage.

 

I needed that.

 

Ken