Steroid-sensitive cancers and the body's Detox Systems

[Guest guest]

HI All,

 

Emmanuel wrote:

> Alon, Most of the reference books on pharmaceuticals describe

> specific pathways of metabolism and excretion. They're pretty

> much mostly metabolized as poisons by the liver and kidney. Is it

> your impression that Chinese herbs are mostly delivering poisons

> that require enormous work by the liver and kidney? Emmanuel

 

Alon wrote:

> If you look at some the pharm literature on Chinese herbs you can

> also find some info on pathways and many are the same enzyme as

> those for pharm drugs. There are interactions between herbs and

> drugs that clearly show herbs to be affecting many of the same

> pathways. There are plenty of herbs out there that cause liver and

> kidney damage. While i agree that in general CM is less toxic that

> is not the same as saying that the mechanisms are totally

> diffrent. Does the mechanism of nontoxic drugs then also totally

> different? I think we have too much feel good stuff here. Alon

 

Alon, agreed! ALL drugs, indeed all nutrients, are potential poisons

under certain circumstances. Even the two most essential

nutrients for live - air and water - can kill if they are taken in

excess. Water toxicity is well documented in calves and pigs

deprived of water for a few days and then allowed access to ad-

libitum water.

 

IMO, the body must process (metabolise/handle) ALL molecular

substances [including air & water] absorbed into it, whether from

digesta, skin or lungs. Through its organs, detox-, circulatory- and

excretory- systems, it uses what it needs, and stores or excretes

what it does not need; it neutralises or complexes metabolisable

toxins and excretes or stores the byproducts.

 

IMO, the same principle applies to herbs. Herbs have many active

compounds [alkaloids, glycosides, oxalates, etc] that can be toxic

under certain circumstances. Toxic compounds in herbs can (and

do) cause toxicity or adverse reactions.

 

For example, plant poisoning is well known in cattle [rhododendron,

senecio, veratrum, claviceps, digitalis, pterydium, taxus, nitrate

poisoning, etc]. In USA, selenium toxicity in range-cattle occurs

when they eat excessive amounts of Se-accumulator plants, such

as astragalus. If these plants grow in an area with toxic Se levels in

the soil, they can accumulate up to 10,000 ppm Se in their dry

matter!

 

Whether or ot toxicity occurs after ingestion of herbal materials

depends mainly on (a) the levels of toxic substances in the plant;

(b) the dose and dose-intervals of the plant, and © the health

status of the subject.

 

Subjects whose Detox Systems are fully operational, and who have

not been loaded previously with stored toxin [like heavy metal, etc]

can cope easily with toxin doses that could kill subjects with a

compromised Detox System.

 

For example, the media hype over deaths in people taking products

containing Kava or Hypericum was ludicrous. One MUST expect

that ANY potent drug [herbal or otherwise] poses high risk in

subjects whose livers or kidneys are damaged [bEFORE herbal

use] by severe cirrhosis, hepatitis or nephritis. The subsequent

sales ban on Hypericum and KAVA products was a cynical and

self-interested attack on herbal medicine by its opponents.

 

The western drug Industry pumps milliions (billions?) of dollars into

research each year. The industry has the universities and research

institutes on their side, if only because those institutions DEPEND

on industry for funding. An organisation that " does not play ball "

with the industry will receive no funding from that industry.

 

Ze'v wrote:

> There are presently no mechanisms to study herb interactions in

> prescriptions, although we can safely say that there are more

> complex interactions and more complex pharmacodyamics in the body

> that with most medications.

 

Agreed. In contrast to Pharma research, herbal research funding is

relatively pathetic. Thus, there is a relative (some would say

appaling) LACK of good research in many aspects of the safety,

efficacy and mechanisms of action herbal medicines. There is also

relatively little good research on the interactions between herbs,

interactions between their active ingredients, and interactions with

western drugs.

 

Whether we like it or not, many people [even many of our friends!)

see us [herbalists or holistic practitioners] as oddballs, practicing a

scientifically unproven and under-researched if not highly dubious

medicine.

 

In contrast to public perception, the INDUSTRY and its minions

take us VERY seriously! They see us as the SINGLE greatest

challenge to their enormous profits and will do all that they can to

bury us. That could include funding moles within our ranks, and

funding herbal research projects that they expect will produce poor

results or show adverse effects.

 

Ze'v wrote:

> ... we shouldn't swallow speculation and fear to the opposite about

> 'estrogenic herbs, either from articles or from studies that I

> really wonder about their accuracy. I'd raise the question of how

> we perceive herbal medicines to work as opposed to pharmaceutical

> drugs, especially when we combine them in prescriptions.

 

Emmanuel wrote:

> Regarding ... Quack-buster issues, anything that's not in the

> paradigm of WM can technically be targeted as quackery by those

> who wish to ignore efficacy and demand " mechanisms of action " .

 

Agreed. Quackbusters will attack on all fronts.

 

But the question of the wisdom of using steroidogenic herbs in

steroid-sensitive cancer is a prime target for Quackbusters. In

warefare, one is advised to know the enemy and attack the

weakest defences.

 

Mammary and prostate cancer are day-to-day concerns of the

public. Everyone knows someone afflicted with those conditions,

and many fear that they may develop them themselves. THAT is

why I see the oestrogen- or androgen- sensitive cancers as being

to important. They are a potential battle-ground for the industry to

highlight the confusion and scarcity of REAL research knowledge

in our ranks.

 

Many western drugs and herbal molecules work by activating or

blocking cell-receptors. IMO, we should AVOID known

oestrogenic/androgenic herbs/formulas in mammary and prostate

steroid-sensitive cancers unless we are fairly sure that they are

SAFE [i did not say EFFECTIVE!].

 

Comments?

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Email: <

 

WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm